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General discussion (archive)Copyright out of control (again)(62 posts)(62 posts)
(62 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 29, 2011
These guys are naive in the extreme, but is there anyone who seriously thinks that:
1) Ultima IV should still be under copyright
2) Ultima IV isn't a huge part of gamer culture

http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/concerning-ultima-4-or-in-which-i-have-to-be-the-wet-blanket/

I think for both reasons the whole copyright claim should be a non-issue, and yet it is, how sad.
Posted March 29, 2011
It does seem very pointless if they're not planning on doing Ultima remakes themselves. But who knows? It's their call, no matter how bad it might seem.
Posted March 29, 2011
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orcishgamer: These guys are naive in the extreme, but is there anyone who seriously thinks that:
1) Ultima IV should still be under copyright
2) Ultima IV isn't a huge part of gamer culture

http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/concerning-ultima-4-or-in-which-i-have-to-be-the-wet-blanket/

I think for both reasons the whole copyright claim should be a non-issue, and yet it is, how sad.
It was released as freeware as was Command & Conquer and lots of other titles. You can't relinquish copyright and then enforce it again, the law doesn't work like that.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: It was released as freeware as was Command & Conquer and lots of other titles. You can't relinquish copyright and then enforce it again, the law doesn't work like that.
Yes, but you CAN release a game for free without relinquishing the copyright, the fact that a game has no cost does not mean it is open-source or public domain and the company which owns the copyright can decide to change the price at any time they please.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: It was released as freeware as was Command & Conquer and lots of other titles. You can't relinquish copyright and then enforce it again, the law doesn't work like that.
You can release something for free while retaining copyright over it. Just because you don't want to charge people for it doesn't mean you want to relinquish all control over it and how it is used and manipulated.

What they can't however do is call people pirates for not having bought it just because they no longer want to release it for free.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: It was released as freeware as was Command & Conquer and lots of other titles. You can't relinquish copyright and then enforce it again, the law doesn't work like that.
You do not automatically relinquish copyright over a game because you release it as freeware. Freeware is not the same as public domain. It also does not automatically give anyone besides yourself the right to distribute the game in question.

Edit: Double Ninja'd!
Post edited March 29, 2011 by Wishbone
Posted March 29, 2011
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Orryyrro: Yes, but you CAN release a game for free without relinquishing the copyright, the fact that a game has no cost does not mean it is open-source or public domain and the company which owns the copyright can decide to change the price at any time they please.
Correct me if I am wrong but EA released both Ultima IV and C&C free. They allowed everyone who wanted to, to download the game as many times as they wished. They made it public domain by doing that and even though they retain the rights to enforce copyright against anyone who may try to copy those games and sell them, they pretty much gave up any rights for people to legally distribute them.
Posted March 29, 2011
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orcishgamer: These guys are naive in the extreme, but is there anyone who seriously thinks that:
1) Ultima IV should still be under copyright
2) Ultima IV isn't a huge part of gamer culture

http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/concerning-ultima-4-or-in-which-i-have-to-be-the-wet-blanket/

I think for both reasons the whole copyright claim should be a non-issue, and yet it is, how sad.
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Delixe: It was released as freeware as was Command & Conquer and lots of other titles. You can't relinquish copyright and then enforce it again, the law doesn't work like that.
It depends what version they used and exactly what the copyright grant was, in the US if the folks involved used something that was not the released version as a source or the copyright grant was fairly restrictive on the one they let go before, they could actually still enforce it.

Example: Betty Boop is still under copyright, but some folks who do not own the copyright, but own an uncopyrighted movie poster for a Betty Boop movie were recently allowed by court decision to continue reproducing said image on their line of handbags and other, similar items. In this case the plaintiff actually also failed to prove that they owned the copyright on the poster (posters weren't covered by copyright back then) and the defendant actually did own a physical copy of said poster. This precedent wouldn't allow me to do the same, I don't own a poster, while the plaintiff in said case apparently couldn't come after me as they don't own the copyright or trademark any more (but did at one point) the person who does certainly could.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: Correct me if I am wrong but EA released both Ultima IV and C&C free. They allowed everyone who wanted to, to download the game as many times as they wished. They made it public domain by doing that...
No, they did not.
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Delixe: and even though they retain the rights to enforce copyright against anyone who may try to copy those games and sell them, they pretty much gave up any rights for people to legally distribute them.
No, they did not.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: Correct me if I am wrong but EA released both Ultima IV and C&C free. They allowed everyone who wanted to, to download the game as many times as they wished. They made it public domain by doing that...
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Wishbone: No, they did not.
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Delixe: and even though they retain the rights to enforce copyright against anyone who may try to copy those games and sell them, they pretty much gave up any rights for people to legally distribute them.
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Wishbone: No, they did not.
Fair enough I suppose. But it's a wankmove if ever I saw one. Then again I did pre-order Dragon Age 2.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Wishbone: No, they did not.
Yup. Even if you release something for free you may retain a clause that it must only be made available from your website, for instance. That's one of the reasons why, back in the day, some stuff never made it onto magazine CDs.
Post edited March 29, 2011 by Navagon
Posted March 29, 2011
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Delixe: Fair enough I suppose. But it's a wankmove if ever I saw one.
I don't think anyone disputes that. It's just very important to distinguish between legal and moral issues in cases like this.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Navagon: It does seem very pointless if they're not planning on doing Ultima remakes themselves. But who knows? It's their call, no matter how bad it might seem.
Did you read the linked article? The probable reason why they are now enforcing their copyright on Ultima 4 is because there is a project which in some way concerns Ultima 4 specifically nearing completion.

And sorry, I can't say more than that right now.

As to the copyright nature of Ultima 4, well, Origin (and later EA) never gave up their copyright; they granted a select few members of the Ultima Dragons (official Ultima fan club) permission to host the PC version of the game for download.

At some point, that download got re-posted on other Ultima fan sites, and/or in conjunction with Ultima-related fan projects; that was never something permitted under the original agreement between the Dragons and Origin, so it's not exactly reasonable to label EA the villain for cracking down on those violations. That they haven't done so before is a curiosity, I suppose, but I take it as further evidence that there is something brewing which concerns Ultima, and specifically Ultima 4.

In the end, Ultima 4 is still available freely online...but now only at the sites of those whom Origin originally gave hosting permission to. Two Flash-based remakes of the game have been taken down (one of which was a remake of a non-PC version of the game, which was even more obvious a violation since none of the non-PC versions of the game have EVER been released for free).

Neither of the NWN-based remakes of Ultima 4 have been taken down, none of the fan patches have been taken down, and none of the fan projects which require a user to own and point to a copy of the original game and its data files have been taken down. Which makes this a pretty tame act of copyright enforcement on EA's part, as such things go.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Orryyrro: Yes, but you CAN release a game for free without relinquishing the copyright, the fact that a game has no cost does not mean it is open-source or public domain and the company which owns the copyright can decide to change the price at any time they please.
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Delixe: Correct me if I am wrong but EA released both Ultima IV and C&C free. They allowed everyone who wanted to, to download the game as many times as they wished. They made it public domain by doing that and even though they retain the rights to enforce copyright against anyone who may try to copy those games and sell them, they pretty much gave up any rights for people to legally distribute them.
No, if I crate a work that falls under copyright I retain that copyright unless I specifically choose to opt out, it does not matter if I am selling copies of that work or giving them away for free I can change my price as often as I wish.
Posted March 29, 2011
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Navagon: It does seem very pointless if they're not planning on doing Ultima remakes themselves. But who knows? It's their call, no matter how bad it might seem.
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kennethkully: Did you read the linked article? The probable reason why they are now enforcing their copyright on Ultima 4 is because there is a project which in some way concerns Ultima 4 specifically nearing completion.

And sorry, I can't say more than that right now.

As to the copyright nature of Ultima 4, well, Origin (and later EA) never gave up their copyright; they granted a select few members of the Ultima Dragons (official Ultima fan club) permission to host the PC version of the game for download.

At some point, that download got re-posted on other Ultima fan sites, and/or in conjunction with Ultima-related fan projects; that was never something permitted under the original agreement between the Dragons and Origin, so it's not exactly reasonable to label EA the villain for cracking down on those violations. That they haven't done so before is a curiosity, I suppose, but I take it as further evidence that there is something brewing which concerns Ultima, and specifically Ultima 4.

In the end, Ultima 4 is still available freely online...but now only at the sites of those whom Origin originally gave hosting permission to. Two Flash-based remakes of the game have been taken down (one of which was a remake of a non-PC version of the game, which was even more obvious a violation since none of the non-PC versions of the game have EVER been released for free).

Neither of the NWN-based remakes of Ultima 4 have been taken down, none of the fan patches have been taken down, and none of the fan projects which require a user to own and point to a copy of the original game and its data files have been taken down. Which makes this a pretty tame act of copyright enforcement on EA's part, as such things go.
Oh gee, what on earth could you be speaking about.... http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/an-ultima-4-development-challenge/

Who cares if it's even on a touchscreen, honestly.

Ultima IV was released in 1985, over 25 years ago. It's taught in history of video game courses. It's one of the most well known games of that era. This is my point about where culture and copyright clash, this is the point where copyright steals from the public domain. This is the point where creativity and derivative works are crushed. This is where pure enjoyment of culture is crushed. All this in favor of eking a few more dollars out of the work.

This is the part where the copyright holder has broken its contract with the public to enrich the public domain in exchange for a limited time monopoly.

This is why I posted this. And fuck EA.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Copyright out of control (again)(62 posts)(62 posts)
(62 posts)