Posted November 27, 2009
Weclock
The Creeper
Weclock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
JonhMan
:D
JonhMan Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2009
From United States
Posted November 27, 2009
http://xkcd.com/341/
While you're at it, read this five part series "1337". Tis funny stuff.
While you're at it, read this five part series "1337". Tis funny stuff.
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted November 27, 2009
Yeah, that isn't just someone ranting on a soapbox at all...
At least the xkcd thing managed to attempt to be funny while ranting about how "hackers are cool" and proprietary everything is bad. Not their best work, but at least it was a soapbox in comic form, and not a soapbox with the word "comic" taped to it :p
If you do want to see a good example of a hilarious XKCD soapbox, read their series on policing the internet. Hilarious.
At least the xkcd thing managed to attempt to be funny while ranting about how "hackers are cool" and proprietary everything is bad. Not their best work, but at least it was a soapbox in comic form, and not a soapbox with the word "comic" taped to it :p
If you do want to see a good example of a hilarious XKCD soapbox, read their series on policing the internet. Hilarious.
Post edited November 27, 2009 by Gundato
drmlessgames
Dosbox l337
drmlessgames Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2009
From Peru
Posted November 27, 2009
While its not funny in the sense of the word, that comic does explain and sum up everything about DRM and downloading right on. I think I'll just use that comic to explain it to anyone who wants to know about it. Sad to read about this the day after an important torrent site was shutdown. : (
Metro09
Your Ad Here
Metro09 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2009
From United States
Posted November 27, 2009
The 'girl' looks like a bald buy standing in front of a scribbled dark background. Oh and I'd like you all to know I was going to get Batman from Steam the other day since it was $25 but you have all tainted me to be hyper sensitive to DRM and my friend said SecuRom could mess up your system so I passed. D:
Post edited November 27, 2009 by Metro09
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
drmlessgames
Dosbox l337
drmlessgames Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2009
From Peru
Posted December 01, 2009
drmlessgames: While its not funny in the sense of the word, that comic does explain and sum up everything about DRM and downloading right on. I think I'll just use that comic to explain it to anyone who wants to know about it. Sad to read about this the day after an important torrent site was shutdown. : (
Gundato: Actually, the comic just sums up one of the more extreme viewpoints against DRM. It completely ignores the questionable nature of internet boycotts (thus making the consumerist.com "evidence" suspect), ignores things like World of Goo's piracy statistics, and many other things. This is the equivalent of saying "They played video games, so video games are evil!" with regard to other touchy subjects.
Does it sum up one of the more extreme viewpoints on DRM? Yup. Does it sum up the debate? Not at all.
Can you explain to me, if you care enough to do so, why you consider this view " extreme? Are you all for DRM, and software with digital handcuffs?
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
drmlessgames: Can you explain to me, if you care enough to do so, why you consider this view " extreme? Are you all for DRM, and software with digital handcuffs?
A better man would probably leave it at that, and let your post kind of illustrate my point. But I am a pretty crappy person, so I am going to respond anyway :)
A lot of people (you seem to be an example) view it as a Black and White issue in which DRM is pure evil and has no benefits and that we should all get rid of it. That is an extreme viewpoint.
I am more of the opinion that there is a lot of grey. Is it a dark grey? Probably. But it is still a grey.
All that comic does is basically say that a bunch of people do online boycotts because of piracy (and we know online boycotts don't work, and are often fake :p), that anyone who uses DRM is evil and stupid, and that the world would be better without it.
What it does not say is that, so far, we have no publicized data regarding DRM's effect on sales (in fact, the only publicized data that I know of is the World of Goo piracy rates, and those kind of didn't favor DRM-free gaming :p), and that there ARE benefits to DRM.
Off the top of my head, a few examples that I think everyone can agree are GOOD things related to DRM
Digital Distribution: Okay, I am sure a bunch of you are going to scream that you don't want to rent a game. What I am thinking of is Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic. That game used Steam, but Steam was optional. So you could register your key and download from Steam any time you want (all the good things about Digital Distribution), but you could still install and play from the disc too. And I don't think there was ever a patch, so no problems there :p
Free DLC/DLC in general: Okay, maybe you don't like paying for DLC. Let's ignore that. Let's instead use Dragon Age as an example. There was a crapload of 0-Day DLC. Furthermore, there were preorder bonuses (something common, even with retail games) that aren't a matter of dragging a file off the bonus CD (I didn't even know that IWD came with bonus stuff until a few years later :p) or entering some weird code. You just log-in to your account and grab it.
Online Gaming: One word, "VAC". If someone cheats (enough), they are banned. Not from that server, but from the game. And other variants include reputations and the like. Using matchmaking (or, theoretically, setting a threshold on a dedicated server), you can be guaranteed to be matched up with people who generally don't teamkill and the like. Is it perfect? Nope, but it sure as sugar helps.
There, 3 things which I think we can all agree are features we like (albeit, with many caveats) that wouldn't be possible without centralized registration-based DRM. And I think we can all agree that those three features probably increased sales for the games (maybe some people didn't buy the game because of the DRM, but L4D2's boycott kind of blows that out of the water).
Is DRM good? Maybe, maybe not. Did that comic present a very extreme viewpoint that used selective research and completely ignored almost every side of the argument? Yup.
So that is what I meant by "extreme". :p
Well, either that or it is because I saw somebody spraypaint that comic onto their skateboard and then kickflip over a spinning helicopter while spraying bad guys with an mp5 and boinking the crap out of a supermodel. All without a helmet, because that makes it more extreme.
One of those.
Weclock
The Creeper
Weclock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
the l4d2 boycott worked out pretty well for me, I got it for less than $50, I got it at $30, which is the perfect price for an expansion pack.
i don't know what is wrong with people saying boycotts never work, they do and this one did.
i don't know what is wrong with people saying boycotts never work, they do and this one did.
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
Weclock: the l4d2 boycott worked out pretty well for me, I got it for less than $50, I got it at $30, which is the perfect price for an expansion pack.
i don't know what is wrong with people saying boycotts never work, they do and this one did.
i don't know what is wrong with people saying boycotts never work, they do and this one did.
Wasn't it just a case of you could buy it as part of the 4-pack to get the 30-ish dollars? I don't think that was really a case of the boycott working and was more just an awesome sale (that would have happened either way) :p. Hell, didn't the first L4D have a 4-pack as well? And I know Borderlands did, and nobody boycotted that :p
Although, one of the key problems with the L4D2 boycott was that the goals were so ill-defined. So I guess it is reasonable to say that it succeeded on the grounds that nobody knew what it was about in the first place :p.
Regardless, my key point was just the infamous picture of so many of the boycotters playing the game. That has kind of hurt the (already shakey) internet boycott threat irreparably.
I read a really good article on why threats of boycotting (especially internet boycotting) is a bad way to get the changes you want, but I can't remember where. If anyone is interested I will look through my history of the past few days, but it isn't a big deal.
Weclock
The Creeper
Weclock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
Gundato: I read a really good article on why threats of boycotting (especially internet boycotting) is a bad way to get the changes you want, but I can't remember where. If anyone is interested I will look through my history of the past few days, but it isn't a big deal.
My memory is a little foggy on this one, but there was a big hullaboo about Spore right?
Since then, the kind of DRM that EA has been using has either been service based or disc based, and not as intensive as Spores was?
Chalk another one up to voting with your wallet.
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
Gundato: I read a really good article on why threats of boycotting (especially internet boycotting) is a bad way to get the changes you want, but I can't remember where. If anyone is interested I will look through my history of the past few days, but it isn't a big deal.
Weclock: My memory is a little foggy on this one, but there was a big hullaboo about Spore right? Since then, the kind of DRM that EA has been using has either been service based or disc based, and not as intensive as Spores was?
Chalk another one up to voting with your wallet.
I am actually really curious about Spore. I know there was a VERY vocal minority who trashed Spore on lots of websites about the DRM (same exact model used in MEPC and a few other games :p), but I am curious as to how sales were impacted. And honestly, I think it is a general consensus that Spore just wasn't that good of a game, so that might have impacted sales as well.
Nah, I think that EA changing their DRM approach has more to do with DLC. At least as far as ME2 and DA:O are concerned, the new DRM system is VERY effective at encouraging purchases as well as selling DLC. And I think they are switching to a "voluntary" activation model with their other games for a similar reason. So I think it was more about presenting a somewhat less "evil" face while maximizing profits than actually "caving" on DRM. Plus, activation model Securom was fully cracked about a week after MEPC's release, so the DRM lost its anti-piracy advantages.
Don't get me wrong, voting with your wallet is always a good idea for an individual can do. But attempts at organizing it just tend to fail, because you will always have the idiots who buy it anyway, and you run into the risk of people boycotting to be "hip".
Nah, the best thing you can do is to contact the publishers and POLITELY explain to them your concerns. I realize this is far too difficult for many of the more militant people among us, but it works. You just explain to them that you understand that, from a publisher's perspective, DRM may be a necessary evil. But you also explain to them POLITELY that you are concerned about limited activations and the like. If enough people do that, they will change.
You shouldn't outright say that you refuse to buy the game, because then you look like an idiot (and lose your worth as a customer). But you do imply that you might at some point.
When MEPC came out, I sent EA an email in which I politely said that I had no problem with DRM in general, but that I was very concerned about problems related to the limited activation model, and that I preferred to avoid them (but obviously still bought MEPC, because that game was freaking awesome). Eventually, they replied to me with a standardized "Yes, we realize you have concerns and we are looking into alternatives that will provide the same degree of protection and what not". Did it impact anything? Probably not, but I think that is the right direction.
What a lot of people forget is that while it is great to threaten to boycott games because of the DRM, it is also often a good idea to buy a GOOD game. Up to you to figure out how good a game has to be, but I am sure we would all be pissed off if people thought bad sales were because of the game and not the DRM :p
Weclock
The Creeper
Weclock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
it's also worth noting that choosing not to buy a game because of whatever reason (drm, shitty game, no money) is not the same as boycotting it.
Gundato
The Peepe
Gundato Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2009
Weclock: it's also worth noting that choosing not to buy a game because of whatever reason (drm, shitty game, no money) is not the same as boycotting it.
Fully agreed. I did that with the Chronicles of Riddick remake/sequel thing, even though I want it a lot. I feel that a boycott is when you start going around and feeling the need to SAY that you refuse to buy a game because of the DRM. Like making posts at a consumer website or spamming Amazon. ANd probably spamming message boards, but let's pretend I am not TOO hypocritical :p
drmlessgames
Dosbox l337
drmlessgames Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2009
From Peru
Posted December 01, 2009
The 1 star reviews on amazon is what made EA remove that draconian DRM from Spore and from future games. It can work.