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Almak: I think its more of an aesthetic as well as a gameplay choice. In game you can not see the actual body of the protagonist, nor is it actually fully rendered (those that use garrys mod have an idea what the actual player render looks like in HL2 and its nowhere near detailed enough to warrant reflecting). Plus with the body fully rendered it would alter the gameplay, since than it would have to interact with the environment properly and that's a whole different shtick that doesn't always work out as intended (look at Dark Messiah for example).
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Weclock: The real issue is that it is not possible to put a mirror in the game, the best you could do is like a T.V. screen with a camera behind it, but even then it's not going to be a true reflection. Throughout all of the Source games there are no mirrors, If there is a mirror, it's been smashed. Everyone in Half-Life 2 is a vampire! Anyway.. It's really odd that they couldn't even do something like reflections, even if they chose not to implement it in the game. Ala the inclusion of Phong prior to any source game actually using it. There's no point to having them not include mirrors, especially seeing as they could just simply not use it. Let the modders use it. Can you imagine how insane Counter-Strike source maps would be if they had a house of mirrors? that'd be fun as shit. You know why it hasn't been done? Because it's not possible in the source engine. Why? I guess Valve doesn't want us to have mirrors.

I'm not terribly impressed with Valves programming in general, so my guess would be that they simply forgot about it during development. The thing with mirrors is that they introduce a second rendering queue into the process. Basically, you turn all objects around, render that, then render the normal level over it with the mirror surface being transparent (or you can do it with framebuffer textures, but that doesn't work too well on PCs as framebuffer access is usually pretty slow on anything before the current generation of graphics cards). Whichever way you chose, you have to reininitialize the engine to the new view point and depending on the kind of optimizations you employ (specifically, how aggressively you generate nodes in the BSP tree), the reinitialization can take a while and in the worst case flush out objects that are needed for the current view, which would then have to be reloaded. If you didn't think about that when you started doing the optimizations, it can be pretty hard to add them lateron.
Well... But don't water reflections do pretty much exactly that?
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Fenixp: Well... But don't water reflections do pretty much exactly that?

Depends on what kind of reflection you're talking about. First there's the simple "reflection" that doesn't really reflect the world, but a prerendered texture instead.
Then there are real reflections which are usually done using framebuffer access as it allows refraction as well. If they used that then yes, they could have used the same code for mirrors.
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hansschmucker: I'm not terribly impressed with Valves programming in general, so my guess would be that they simply forgot about it during development. If you didn't think about that when you started doing the optimizations, it can be pretty hard to add them lateron.
That's fairly much what I assume, but sometimes I jump to extremes to make a point. :D
Yes, I like to play the devils advocate.
Post edited February 08, 2009 by Weclock
What a moronic solution. Clipping/collision detection issues are ridiculously easy to fix (even if all they do is make the surfaces solid on both sides, which is how many games handle all surfaces by default), and with a hard drive in every PS3 it's not like there are any technical barriers to releasing a patch.
Such obviously exploitable gaps are unacceptable in a game with this sort of budget. I can think of a huge number of games I've played where such gaps are very rare or simply non-existent (especially in the case of multiplayer games), and many of them wouldn't have had such a huge budget.
I also find it very hard to believe that this was not discovered during beta testing. Experienced beta testers would know the most common places clipping gaps occur and would do their best to glitch through them, and there's also a reasonable chance of testers accidentally doing so while trying to climb up parts of the scenery you're not meant to be able to pass.
Well since we're talking about source and their real-time water reflections...
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Fenixp: Well since we're talking about source and their real-time water reflections...

It's been a long time since I played any source game and I simply didn't remember that. As I said, if the reflections are real, they could have used the same code for mirrors.
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Arkose: What a moronic solution. Clipping/collision detection issues are ridiculously easy to fix (even if all they do is make the surfaces solid on both sides, which is how many games handle all surfaces by default), and with a hard drive in every PS3 it's not like there are any technical barriers to releasing a patch.
Such obviously exploitable gaps are unacceptable in a game with this sort of budget. I can think of a huge number of games I've played where such gaps are very rare or simply non-existent (especially in the case of multiplayer games), and many of them wouldn't have had such a huge budget.
I also find it very hard to believe that this was not discovered during beta testing. Experienced beta testers would know the most common places clipping gaps occur and would do their best to glitch through them, and there's also a reasonable chance of testers accidentally doing so while trying to climb up parts of the scenery you're not meant to be able to pass.

It happens. As long as you patch it this is fine by me. But apparently, many developers now prefer banning to actually fixing their games. Point in case: CoD5. There are many, many spots where you can use the faulty collision detection to catapult you up. Just jump aginst some entities and quickly duck and jump again and you'll be lifted above the entity and often to the roof. Or you can go under the map. Are this things known? They sure are, but no patch in sight.
Post edited February 08, 2009 by hansschmucker
Heh had to look it up and see if the community came up with something yet for this and they did. Its not natively supported but it is creative. Here they are using a preset for scope reflections to simulate a mirror effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTHlvXQ1P8
All though inverted. You can also see a glimpse of the in-game model for freeman in there and why dynamic reflection on him wouldn't be the best idea.
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Almak: All though inverted. You can also see a glimpse of the in-game model for freeman in there and why dynamic reflection on him wouldn't be the best idea.

As you say, it's not, in fact, mirrored at all. I'm guessing this is the aforementioned "tv screen and camera solution", which is not a mirror, and can't be mistaken for one.
Well glitching in games has been around as long as multiplayer, it sucks and they should fix it but if they don't, it's a natural selection thing, people will move to games that work better. At least that's the theory, realistically they'll probably just move to the next glitchy game, spend months bitching about a lack of patch and then repeat.
I've played Gears Of War 2 enough to have seen at least 2 glitches, the "invisible shield whilst using a normal gun" one and the "smoke grenade blowing someone out of the map" one. The latter was most annoying as it was in a game of submission and the dipshits who did it blew the hostage you have to capture out of the map so noone could win.
Post edited February 08, 2009 by Aliasalpha
Walkthroughs don't count as cheating much. I think anyway. But my question is this: If say you have a buddy, and you're stuck on a part of a game. And your friend who is not involved in playing the game says something like "Oh, try doing [such and such]", and it is the solution. Does that count as cheating because he isn't playing the game?
Oh, and Weclock, Hong Kong pride!
Post edited February 08, 2009 by michaelleung
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michaelleung: Walkthroughs don't count as cheating much. I think anyway. But my question is this: If say you have a buddy, and you're stuck on a part of a game. And your friend who is not involved in playing the game says something like "Oh, try doing [such and such]", and it is the solution. Does that count as cheating because he isn't playing the game?
Oh, and Weclock, Hong Kong pride!
I just picked it because some guys were talking about hong kong in the irc while I was asking for ideas for a new avatar.
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michaelleung: Walkthroughs don't count as cheating much. I think anyway. But my question is this: If say you have a buddy, and you're stuck on a part of a game. And your friend who is not involved in playing the game says something like "Oh, try doing [such and such]", and it is the solution. Does that count as cheating because he isn't playing the game?
Oh, and Weclock, Hong Kong pride!
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Weclock: I just picked it because some guys were talking about hong kong in the irc while I was asking for ideas for a new avatar.

I know, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy about myself.
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michaelleung: Walkthroughs don't count as cheating much. I think anyway. But my question is this: If say you have a buddy, and you're stuck on a part of a game. And your friend who is not involved in playing the game says something like "Oh, try doing [such and such]", and it is the solution. Does that count as cheating because he isn't playing the game?
Oh, and Weclock, Hong Kong pride!

Haha, I do stuff like this all the time. Most recently I was playing Puzzle Quest while a friend watched over my shoulders, pointing out good moves and trying to convince me to use certain spells.
I think walkthroughs are KIND of cheating but in a single player game cheating isn't really relevant, it's only hurting yourself. Hints I like, "The solution involves the manual of style" is good but "GIVE stylish confetti to HEAVILY ARMED CLOWN" is a bit too hand-holdy
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Weclock: I just picked it because some guys were talking about hong kong in the irc while I was asking for ideas for a new avatar.

Damn, lucky they weren't talking about gay porn...