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General discussion (archive)Bullying must end...NOW!!!(94 posts)(94 posts)
(94 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 13, 2012
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pH7: what's generally unacceptable and into what may be accetable for some yet unacceptable for others. Yes, some (most?) bullies bully because they themselves have been bullied. However, if my brother killed a woman and that woman's brother killed my sister, it wouldn't make that man any less responsible for his actions, nor in any way make them excusable to any degree. Passing on injustice can't be justified.
Yeah, I never said you should allow such kind of bullying. I think we agree. I just pointed out that measures should be chosen very carefully , especially when it comes to bullying in elementary school, where kids often just don't understand what's good and wrong (nobody taught them that).
By choosing wrong measures, too forceful etc. you may just end up making things worse. Not necessarily to the bullied, but for the bully. Young kid is taught that you shouldn't trust teachers, authorities, etc.

I don't know how to descire it better, but sometimes, by taking too much action, you may just end up with bringing up a young criminal. The opposite what you wanted.
And this is why too strict anti bullying state laws may be harmful. They may stop or minimise one problem (bullying), but may create entire new set of problems.
Post edited October 13, 2012 by keeveek
Posted October 13, 2012
What I'm saying, bullies are often the kids who need the help too. Simple punishement may bring no good at all.

(sorry for doubleposting, but the edit form is so fucked up right now...)
Post edited October 13, 2012 by keeveek
Posted October 13, 2012
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Skunk: [...] My opinion and trust of others is very low, [...]
That's ok - my opinion of you is quite high, yet I don't trust you any further than I can google-stalk you =P

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Skunk: [...] I desperately wanted to die, and never really made that much of a secret. Even these days, I still do, as my mental and physical health lately has left me frequently questioning why I bother to wake up each day. Maybe it's just my narcissism, or maybe it could be because I owe my family and friends more than that. I deliberately try to avoid asking myself that question. [...]
Maybe you really should ask yourself that question. If the answer is a mere "because my friends and family appreciate me and care about me", chances are your life still has more "meaning" (or value or whatever) than some of your former bullies lives. I'm pretty sure you have more going for you than just that, though. I'd rather you keep waking up, if for nothing more than posting here on this inconsequental forum. Of course, only you know the extent of the arguments for not waking up, so the decision will always be yours. (Just don't ever delegate that decision to anyone else - it'd be wrong in so many ways.)

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Skunk: Maybe bullying gives character. Maybe it leaves you into a smarter, better, and possibly more empathetic person. These days, everybody seems to be a winner, papers that would've been graded D are merely A-, standards seem to be much lower. I'm not saying bullying is great and that Biff Tannen is an excellent role model. I simply don't agree that it can end, much less must end, and that while we definitely need teachers and faculty to not just turn and walk away when somebody is clearly having the shit knocked out of them, I don't think the bullies themselves are at the root of the problem. Bullies are extremely replaceable.
I'm not sure if you mean that to bully someone builds character, or if being bullied builds character (sorry - not a native english speaker) but a disagree with the former and generally agree with the latter. Overcoming problems builds character, broadens the mind and possibly also increase empathy. Life's full of problems, and the better you are at overcomming them, the further you get. Some people solve problems by bullying them away, but that's only a temporary solution in many cases - it'll bite you in the proverbial given a chance. I don't think the shit I've been through has made me a better human being (possibly worse, even), but it has made me stronger (at a faster rate than those in my vincinity that didn't go through as much shit).
Posted October 13, 2012
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keeveek: What I'm saying, bullies are often the kids who need the help too. Simple punishement may bring no good at all. (sorry for doubleposting, but the edit form is so fucked up right now...)
That's been my experience. Of all the folks that bullied me, I'm not aware of a single one who wasn't his or herself having similar problems.

Punishment really shouldn't be the only means tried. Sometimes a stern lecture really is all that's necessary to gain a more appropriate behavioral pattern.
Posted October 13, 2012
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keeveek: What I'm saying, bullies are often the kids who need the help too. Simple punishement may bring no good at all. (sorry for doubleposting, but the edit form is so fucked up right now...)
I see your point and I do agree. Going after the bullies "with cannons" is as useless as waging actual war on terrorism; bullying (and terrorism) is but a symptom. If one neglects treating the causes and only try minimising the symptoms, it'll never get much better. Still, everyone should be held responsible for their actions.
Posted October 13, 2012
Humans can be horrible creatures and life is hard. You either toughen up or you fall, and it's best to learn that early. Not saying I agree with bullying but generally when people complain about it my response veers more toward "teach your kids to handle it" rather than indulging a fantasy of bullying ending at some point.
Posted October 13, 2012
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StingingVelvet: Humans can be horrible creatures and life is hard. You either toughen up or you fall, and it's best to learn that early. Not saying I agree with bullying but generally when people complain about it my response veers more toward "teach your kids to handle it" rather than indulging a fantasy of bullying ending at some point.
Pretty much this

It is very unfortunate that the way many kids are brought up today they are almost completely shielded by a "manufactured reality" by Media and Parents and then when they encounter actual, serious problems in their life, they don't know what to do or how to solve them
Posted October 13, 2012
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StingingVelvet: Humans can be horrible creatures and life is hard. You either toughen up or you fall, and it's best to learn that early. Not saying I agree with bullying but generally when people complain about it my response veers more toward "teach your kids to handle it" rather than indulging a fantasy of bullying ending at some point.
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Roman5: Pretty much this It is very unfortunate that the way many kids are brought up today they are almost completely shielded by a "manufactured reality" by Media and Parents and then when they encounter actual, serious problems in their life, they don't know what to do or how to solve them
I don't get this. Are you saying that people/kids should just, "man-up"? Because nothing can be done? Because that is how life is?

If I replace the word 'bully' with 'rape' will I get the same result? Just "man-up" because that is how life is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism

There are dangerous kids out there.
http://listverse.com/2007/11/23/top-10-evil-children/

Bullies need to be stopped. Telling the victim to "man up" is not going to work.
Posted October 13, 2012
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fablefox: Bullies need to be stopped. Telling the victim to "man up" is not going to work.
No, bullying just needs more control. You can't fully eliminate it so it's a good idea to help people cope with it. As someone mentioned in this thread, basically everybody has faced some sort of bullying at some point - the main difference was their ability to cope with it. Of course you might say that most people haven't experienced the extreme cases such as physical abuse or extortion but note that these cases are stuff that usually occurs after a long career of being a victim, not instantly and out of nowhere. If these victims either got support or just "a grip" early on they could have avoided the escalations.
Posted October 13, 2012
Manning up is one point of view. Another is just to be aware of your surroundings and not put yourself in situations that will turn out to be ugly in some point in the future.

This doesn't apply to just bullying of any kind, but to life in general, especially concerning violence in any way.

More people should be getting into reading what Geoff Thompson has to say about self-defense for one and in our particular case, the book The Art of Fighting without Fighting is a must read as the principles therein can be applied to many situations.

Just be aware of where you are, what you're doing, who is in the vicinity and act accordingly.

Education starts at home, but let us not forget that we live in a sick, dangerous world and that we need to take the necessary precautions for our well-being, including of our children. Teach them how to spot trouble early on, how to avoid them, maybe even send them over to a gym to learn some self-defense (boxing, sambo etc) if need be.

I, for one, don't give a wooden nickel on the laws and authorities in my country, not that I don't want to, but that in many situations they are against the common man. Better watch your @$$ by yourself and not rely on someone else watching it for you, because you could get into a world of hurt.

You know, it takes some balls to actually pull off a suicide and although a lot of courage is needed, I still condemn the act because you miss on a ton of stuff. I hate it when young people choose to end their lives that way, without experiencing all the joys it can bring. That's right, I'm talking about CHOICE, because many people in history didn't even get to have the luxury of choice, such as the poor young chaps that were sent to fight in WW2. many of whom didn't get to return in one piece.

*end of ramble
Posted October 13, 2012
I'd have a lot to say, but I think I'm going to sumup my feelings on the matter with a quote from a page called "Myths and misperceptions about school bullying" (http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/myths.htm)

"It's funny how people who simply say "stand up for yourself" never, ever, tell you how to stand up for yourself. Even adults find it difficult to defend themselves against the onslaught of bullies, especially a serial bully."
Posted October 13, 2012
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Carcalete222: You know, it takes some balls to actually pull off a suicide and although a lot of courage is needed, I still condemn the act because you miss on a ton of stuff. I hate it when young people choose to end their lives that way, without experiencing all the joys it can bring.
That something requires balls doesn't make it any better, does it - and yeah, I agree with you that for one it's incredibly stupid because these kids are wasting the only chance they'd have at experiencing a great normal (or even exceptional) life later on. In most of these cases I hear about it seems like these kids could get out of their misery if they just held on for a few months or years. But I also condemn suicide for usually being an incredibly egoistic act. My parents won't ever stop blaming themselves if I did such a thing (even if they weren't directly to blame) - that's another fucking good reason not to do it, isn't it.
Posted October 13, 2012
There are some pretty messed up people out there, but punishment only or moving somewhere else is not a solution. Trouble is, the system doesn't have the desire to deal with it appropriately. There are many in society who get "overlooked" until they do something wrong and upset the status quo, and then they're treated as offenders, not people.
Posted October 13, 2012
Rather unfortunate and sad. :(
Posted October 13, 2012
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hedwards: Of all the folks that bullied me, I'm not aware of a single one who wasn't his or herself having similar problems.
Unfortunately at least 50% of all bullies I've encountered in my life had a great situation. I couldn't even ease myself with the thought that they were worse off than me - until much later, that is.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Bullying must end...NOW!!!(94 posts)(94 posts)
(94 posts)