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RaggieRags: In every ME3 thread on any forum, most people who have seen the ending hate it. On any poll on any website, the massive majority of respondents hate the ending. So why exactly should one assume only a loud minority hates the ending?
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StingingVelvet: Because 90% of people who played the game participated in NONE of that, for one.
Where did you get that number? Even if that were true, how does it prove they feel satisfied? Is there any reason to believe that the majority of ME players feel any different than the majority of people who have voiced their opinion online? ME is a hardcore gamer series.

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StingingVelvet: For another, whining about the ending a bit does not indicate overall dissatisfaction.
One would actively have to ignore any related discussions to claim there is no overall dissatisfaction towards Bioware and ME right now. This thread here is just one example.
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RaggieRags: One would actively have to ignore any related discussions to claim there is no overall dissatisfaction towards Bioware and ME right now. This thread here is just one example.
"The ending sucked" does not equate to "OMG Bioware and Mass Effect sucks." Some drama queens, like yourself apparently, are acting like that, true. Hopefully we can all agree to dismiss their insanity however.
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StingingVelvet: "The ending sucked" does not equate to "OMG Bioware and Mass Effect sucks." Some drama queens, like yourself apparently, are acting like that, true.
Oh, I'm a drama queen now? :-) You're the rational one and anyone disagreeing with you is being melodramatic. Gotcha.
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RaggieRags: Oh, I'm a drama queen now? :-) You're the rational one and anyone disagreeing with you is being melodramatic. Gotcha.
Acting like an excellent 3 game series that was reviewed well and sold well is trash and evidence of Bioware's imminent demise because some loud people disliked the ending is, in fact, being a drama queen. Yes.
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RaggieRags: Oh, I'm a drama queen now? :-) You're the rational one and anyone disagreeing with you is being melodramatic. Gotcha.
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StingingVelvet: Acting like an excellent 3 game series that was reviewed well and sold well is trash and evidence of Bioware's imminent demise because some loud people disliked the ending is, in fact, being a drama queen. Yes.
And when have I ever said anything like that?
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StingingVelvet: Acting like an excellent 3 game series that was reviewed well and sold well is trash and evidence of Bioware's imminent demise because some loud people disliked the ending is, in fact, being a drama queen. Yes.
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RaggieRags: And when have I ever said anything like that?
You said there is "overall dissatisfaction" with the series. You said "most" hated the ending. I am going off your own words. If you want to clarify then by all means do so.
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StingingVelvet: You said there is "overall dissatisfaction" with the series. You said "most" hated the ending.
I'm not sure how you can translate that into "acting like an excellent 3 game series that was reviewed well and sold well is trash" and "evidence of Bioware's imminent demise". You put some very dramatic words into my mouth and then call me out for being a "drama queen". This is called a strawman argument.
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RaggieRags: I'm not sure how you can translate that into "acting like an excellent 3 game series that was reviewed well and sold well is trash" and "evidence of Bioware's imminent demise". You put some very dramatic words into my mouth and then call me out for being a "drama queen". This is called a strawman argument.
How does "overall dissatisfaction with Mass Effect" not equate to the series in general for you? Words mean stuff. If you meant "some people really disliked the ending of ME3 which might turn them off a 4th game" then okay sure, I agree with you. I do not agree there is an "overall dissatisfaction." That is drama queen bullshit.
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StingingVelvet: How does "overall dissatisfaction with Mass Effect" not equate to the series in general for you? Words mean stuff. If you meant "some people really disliked the ending of ME3 which might turn them off a 4th game" then okay sure, I agree with you. I do not agree there is an "overall dissatisfaction." That is drama queen bullshit.
Allright, let's ignore everything else I did *not* say and concentrate on this point. :-) What I'm saying with "overall dissatisfaction" is that most people felt let down by the ME3 ending (and many with ME3 itself) and a lot of people are now sour with the franchise. There's also a lot of dissatisfaction with Bioware in general right now. The general news reports and online discussions about the ME franchise and Bioware are bending towards negative. The overall negativity has lasted for more than six months now and it's gotten to the point where it's feeding itself. What a lot of people now first and foremost associate with Bioware and Mass Effect is controversy. It is a difficult chain to break and Bioware has a lot to prove with DA3. I personally hope it will be return to form and Bioware has learned from their mistakes, but I won't be preordering.
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StingingVelvet: I for one liked the ending. Very Deus Ex style.
You mean what has been considered the biggest weakness about Deus Ex (except for its so-so combat of course)? Deus Ex's ending was far from great - it was a "choose A, B or C" moment which was pretty detached from the rest of the game. It would have been far more interesting if you had to work towards one of those goals instead.
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RaggieRags: Allright, let's ignore everything else I did *not* say and concentrate on this point. :-) What I'm saying with "overall dissatisfaction" is that most people felt let down by the ME3 ending (and many with ME3 itself) and a lot of people are now sour with the franchise. There's also a lot of dissatisfaction with Bioware in general right now. The general news reports and online discussions about the ME franchise and Bioware are bending towards negative. The overall negativity has lasted for more than six months now and it's gotten to the point where it's feeding itself. What a lot of people now first and foremost associate with Bioware and Mass Effect is controversy. It is a difficult chain to break and Bioware has a lot to prove with DA3. I personally hope it will be return to form and Bioware has learned from their mistakes, but I won't be preordering.
Again, your use of most is highly speculative. Most people who played ME3 never told you their feelings on the ending one way or the other.

Still, assuming you're right and we can extrapolate common thought from internet rage (which I highly doubt but whatever, assuming) I don't see how that at all equates to general satisfaction. It means the ending sucked in some people's opinion, why does that effect overall satisfaction or desire to play the next game? Is the ending all that matters? Does one ending taint their other projects? I don't understand.

I'm not even saying you're wrong about this being something a lot of people say on the internet, I am just saying it's stupid.
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Red_Avatar: You mean what has been considered the biggest weakness about Deus Ex (except for its so-so combat of course)? Deus Ex's ending was far from great - it was a "choose A, B or C" moment which was pretty detached from the rest of the game. It would have been far more interesting if you had to work towards one of those goals instead.
Sure, but that's a lot fucking harder. I understand that game development limitations make long build-ups to various endings very hard to pull of time and budget wise. I also understand that people expecting every nuance of their 3 game 120 hour investment to be represented in the series ending are asking for the stars.

ME3 ended fine. It allowed you to make standard freedom/nanny-state/ascendance choices like every sci-fi game and explained the reapers in a cool way. I had no problem with it and have yet to see something realistic people would have preferred.
Post edited October 02, 2012 by StingingVelvet
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StingingVelvet: Again, your use of most is highly speculative. Most people who played ME3 never told you their feelings on the ending one way or the other.
Yes, I'm speculating. So are you. The difference is that you are the one sprouting insults and arguing against words you put into my mouth yourself. I'm also basing my speculation on more than a random number I just pulled out of my hat. But obviously I can still be wrong.

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StingingVelvet: Still, assuming you're right and we can extrapolate common thought from internet rage (which I highly doubt but whatever, assuming) I don't see how that at all equates to general satisfaction. It means the ending sucked in some people's opinion, why does that effect overall satisfaction or desire to play the next game? Is the ending all that matters? Does one ending taint their other projects? I don't understand.

I'm not even saying you're wrong about this being something a lot of people say on the internet, I am just saying it's stupid.
That's how the cookie crumbles. People always remember best the last impression, the latest example. The ending is also not just the last ten minutes of the story. Not all parts of a storyline are equal; the ending can destroy the entire story, no matter how good the story has been up to that point.
I am convinced that the majority of players is not posting in gaming forums. They just play. It's therefore difficult to say what they think and every statement about average opinions of players must be taken with extreme care. Basically nobody knows.

I think customers overreact to the ending. Everybody can imagine his/her own ending if necessary. Like I am not taking the latest three Star Wars movies seriously. I just ban them from my memory.

Maybe we should discuss who makes the best CRPGs currently and why. That way we could identify better the properties that define great CRPG developers and answer if Bioware still is one of them?
Post edited October 02, 2012 by Trilarion
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StingingVelvet: I for one liked the ending. Very Deus Ex style.
Well don't forget that you didn't played the original ending but the "damage control" endings where they took most of the blatant plot holes or other stupidities and tried, with various level of success, to come up with an excuse/justification for it.
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StingingVelvet: ME3 ended fine. It allowed you to make standard freedom/nanny-state/ascendance choices like every sci-fi game and explained the reapers in a cool way. I had no problem with it and have yet to see something realistic people would have preferred.
Since when "exterminate without second thought those who are different from us" == "freedom"
Post edited October 02, 2012 by Gersen
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RaggieRags: That's how the cookie crumbles. People always remember best the last impression, the latest example. The ending is also not just the last ten minutes of the story. Not all parts of a storyline are equal; the ending can destroy the entire story, no matter how good the story has been up to that point.
What was so fucking horrible about that ending that it could ruin the whole franchise? Please tell me.
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Gersen: Well don't forget that you didn't played the original ending but the "damage control" endings where they took most of the blatant plot holes or other stupidities and tried, with various level of success, to come up with an excuse/justification for it.
Yes, but it is my understanding the main problem people had with the ending was not fixed or changed. The main problem is the Deus Ex style choice and lack of response to each and every choice you made throughout all three games.

Am I wrong?

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Gersen: Since when "exterminate without second thought those who are different from us" == "freedom"
Ignoring the silly debate about whether AI is a living thing we should care about destroying, it was the standard anarchy ending. Blow shit up, remove control and safeguards, let the galaxy evolve unhindered.
Post edited October 02, 2012 by StingingVelvet