Who fucking cares, frankly speaking. I will play them when the current generation consoles will be emulated. And I won't pay a damn cent for them because I will have purchased the PC version of the game already.....

Not really. I think a few people managed to get SOME of the TES4 mods working on consoles. And there is no reason someone couldn't get a spare PS3 to run as a dedicated Killzone server.

And there are things preventing them from releasing the DLC. They probably don't want to use the GfwL platform, and don't want to make their own DLC distribution scheme. Uhm. L4D(2): The Sacrifice :p. Valve (who ARE Steam, the centralized DLC platform) gave it to us for free while charging our console brethren.

Just last year or so, The Saboteur (great game, horrible launch) used DLC as a way to cut down on resale, but PC get it for free no matter what.

I found the sequel already fail, but not giving us a DLC. What is it, Ubisoft's looming shadow?

Anyway, I am convinced to sell my copy to gamestop now. Fucking 2k.

Blame damn GFWL for this not 2K please. See Mafia 2 DLC's, it is coming to Steam at the same time as the consoles.

I am pretty sure it's more a case of "we don't give a damn about the PC version" rather than a problem with GFWL, I know a lot of peoples love to hate GFWL but in the end we don't know if for an editor it's really harder top release DLC on it when compared to other alternative.

Not to mention that just because the game uses it doesn't means they are forced to use it too for the DLC, especially as the game uses Securom as it's DRM and not GFWL.

Heck all of Borderlands's DLC were released and yet the game uses neither GFWL nor Steam so nothing prevented them to uses the same DRM for B2 DCL should they want to. And don't forget that for the "lucky" ATI cards owner on which the game worked fine (I am one of them) there was still the wonderful map bug that renders the game nearly completely unplayable.

Okay. Console games tend to retail for 60 bucks these days, while PC games tend to retail for 50 bucks.

You pay much less for a PC game than a console. That price difference is coming from somewhere and (usually) boils down to less options (DLC) if you're going the cheaper way. If you had an nVidia card, The Saboteur was one of the best GTA-clones in the past decade or so.

We could go on and figure out how many games you had to buy to reach break even point. Instead, I'd go the other road: 2K shouldn't be allowed to complain about PC games not selling enough anymore.

Possible. But since you brought that example up, how many games come to mind that "performed" in a similar way on consoles? I'd bet for every example you can come up with, we'll find 2-3 worse on PC side.
Point is, we live with patches, late releases, non-native controls, console exclusive games and now with not available additional content for PC systems. Is it any wonder so many aren't willing to buy full-prize games on PC anymore? But oh, I forgot... it must be because of the pirates. :)

And all of that is an entirely different subject.

My only point was that the topic creator complained that it is unfair that consoles are getting support that he wanted. I just pointed out that the exact same argument could be made for why devs are shifting away from (public) dedicated servers and modding tools. It provides "unfair" support for one platform over another.

I think your arguments still fall short. The shift away from dedicated servers has to do with money and more importantly, with control. Not to get console players playing against PC gamers.

However, I can't see a shift away from modding tools. Regardless, your on console working TES4 mods still where made with PCs. I don't see, how anyone could possible work with modding tools like the ones from TES or DA:O on a console - there are too many obstacles, with mouse and keyboard just being the basic ones.
This does have a lot less to do with unfair support then with possibilities. Today's consoles just weren't build for that.

If it's unfair to not release DLCs on a platform where you did port the base game to, is debatable. But I certainly wouldn't call it a smart move.

Hmm, disappointing, but I've only ever paid for DLC on Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age...

Not a big DLC buyer.

And I also doubt that the DLC thing has anything to do with valuing a console over a PC, and more to do with politics and the difficulty of patching/ensuring compatibility for a PC instead of a console. Do you know WHY it tends to be less profitable to make a PC game? Because debugging is a real bitch. There are so many different hardware configurations to deal with, each one potentially causing a problem. And then you have to deal with updated drivers breaking things. This is all versus a console where MS/Sony/Nintendo are responsible for making sure firmware updates don't break older games.

As for modding tools: I haven't opened the DA:O editor yet, so maybe that one is different. But the NWN and NWN2 editor (and probalby The Djinni for The Witcher, for obvious reasons :p) could easily work on consoles. Same with the various TES/Fallout3 editors.

Position with joysticks (would actually be a LOT more intuitive, rather than having to hold ctrl-and crap), snap them together, and you are done building the level geometry. Going through the menus would be a bit more tedious, but the interface would also probably be modified.

Scripting and dialogue are the big issues, although don't all the consoles have keyboard adaptors/gamepads by now? And also, I would argue that 85-95% of all the scripting needed for a TES or NWN mod could EASILY be handled with a gui and flow charts. Hell, I really wish that Bethesda and/or Bioware would get off their asses and try and implement something like that (would make modding a LOT more user-friendly). I vaguely recall something about the version of the UED used with UT3 having some gui/flow-chart based scripting thing,but I may have misunderstood.

The Saboteur (PC) was severely underrated.
Awesome swan song from Pandemic.

Games for Windows Live, I shall have my revenge!

Publisher whining about the terrible, terrible losses from piracy on the PC becomes hollow and insincere once you realise that they act the same way towards second-hand sales. Many recent games have bundled "first buyer only" DLC and used simpler DRM for the PC version, with the goal being to harm second-hand buyers rather than pirates.