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Liberty: This is not an ad done by a campaign who thinks it is winning. It seems more designed to shore up the base. Americans do take their presidential elections seriously, and this isn't going to influence independents.
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DarrkPhoenix: An interesting thing to note in this election is that both campaigns are heavily focused on motivating their bases to get out and vote, more so than trying to convince independent voters. Presidential elections have been trending this way, but it's even more pronounced this year. This is because politics have become so polarized in the US that the proportion of the population willing to vote for one of the major parties' candidates and not being convinced on which one to vote for is quite small. Instead, you have die-hards on both sides who are going to vote for their party's candidate regardless, people who lean strongly towards one party or the other but are disillusioned enough that they don't feel particularly motivated to vote unless something really gets them fired up, and then independents who increasingly feel that both parties are full of wankers and thus don't feel inclined to vote. Basically there are more gains to be had in just trying to get the base pissed off enough to bother to go out and vote than there is in trying to convince people that the candidate has good ideas on how to run things. Which is a pretty sad commentary on the state of affairs in US politics.
Republicans said the same thing in 2008.
Still my favorite political ads ever :

Dale Peterson runs for Alabama Agriculture Commissioner :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU7fhIO7DG0

Later, he throws his support behind a different candidate :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabMEHfCjT0&feature=relmfu
Fantastic use of the word "rip" and also of firearms haha


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Crassmaster: Still my favorite political ads ever : Dale Peterson runs for Alabama Agriculture Commissioner : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU7fhIO7DG0 Later, he throws his support behind a different candidate : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabMEHfCjT0&feature=relmfu
To be more serious, I'm not American but wanting to get rid of public broadcasting is just evil. Here in Australia the public broadcaster (ABC) is the only channel that broadcasts actually informational interesting stuff of benefit, without it all the television would be is low-brow reality program shit.
That was pretty alright. But why are people so keen on spending campaign money to attack their opponents? It's unbecoming of a future leader.

Well, I'm sure it happens in every country. It just seems strange for it to be such a major part of politics in the US.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by Whitecroc
Actually, it might be the worst political ad ever. I hate when politicians use zero rhetoric in their bashing over their rivals. Ads such as this should be banned from politics forever.
Political campaign focused on attacking your opponent instead of showing why you are better candidate should be a short way for loosing the election.
But yeah, it happens everywhere. Politics = kindergarten , most of the time.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by keeveek
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Whitecroc: That was pretty alright. But why are people so keen on spending campaign money to attack their opponents? It's unbecoming of a future leader. Well, I'm sure it happens in every country. It just seems strange for it to be such a major part of politics in the US.
Because it works. Analyses have shown that trying to throw mud at your opponent is often more effective than trying to convince voters of one's own vision. At least in the US, where the respective studies were done, it might be different in other parts of the world.
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Whitecroc: That was pretty alright. But why are people so keen on spending campaign money to attack their opponents? It's unbecoming of a future leader. Well, I'm sure it happens in every country. It just seems strange for it to be such a major part of politics in the US.
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Psyringe: Because it works. Analyses have shown that trying to throw mud at your opponent is often more effective than trying to convince voters of one's own vision. At least in the US, where the respective studies were done, it might be different in other parts of the world.
This is kinda sad, isn't it?

But it doesn't always work. Major Polish opposition party focused their entire campaign on bashing over opponents and it didn't give them nothing. They had exactly the same result as ratings were from the beginning.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by keeveek
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Psyringe: Because it works. Analyses have shown that trying to throw mud at your opponent is often more effective than trying to convince voters of one's own vision. At least in the US, where the respective studies were done, it might be different in other parts of the world.
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keeveek: This is kinda sad, isn't it?

But it doesn't always work. Major Polish opposition party focused their entire campaign on bashing over opponents and it didn't give them nothing. They had exactly the same result as ratings were from the beginning.
Yes, it's _very_ sad imho. A democracy in which slander is the most efficient way to get you to the top is pretty much defunct, since the competition of ideas that _ought_ to be the strength of a democracy gets distorted and marginalized.

Like in Poland (from your example), I doubt that such a strategy would be very successful in Germany right now. Generally, attacking one's opponent in such an obviously unfair way would be regarded as a very poor style, and it would raise the question whether the campaign was so little convinced of their own agenda that they are spending money to attack the opponent on a personal level. But I don't know whether that'll still be the case in, say, 20 years from now. In many respects, European culture "catches up" with American culture within 1-2 decades.

The groundwork is already laid. Back in the 70s and early 80s, German parties tended to put their actual _agenda_ on their posters. Nobody does this anymore. Today, posters typically show the face of a party's lead candidate, and some catch-all slogan that's supposed to highlight popular traits of their personality. So, while we don't yet have the circus going on that elections in the US have degraded to, we _are_ eroding our political culture nonetheless.
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Crosmando: To be more serious, I'm not American but wanting to get rid of public broadcasting is just evil. Here in Australia the public broadcaster (ABC) is the only channel that broadcasts actually informational interesting stuff of benefit, without it all the television would be is low-brow reality program shit.
It's not that Romney is out to get rid of public broadcasting. It's that the US currently has a $15 trillion dollar deficit and we need to make some major cuts. One of the things that will take a hit in Romney's plan is public broadcasting.

Overall, I think that there are more important things to talk about in the campaigns, for example what is each candidates plan to get 12 million people back to work.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by cbean85
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keeveek: Major Polish opposition party focused their entire campaign on bashing over opponents and it didn't give them nothing. They had exactly the same result as ratings were from the beginning.
I like to think that without their mud throwing campaigns they could have done a lot worse. I feel like the whole party and all their voters are angry people united in hate and that's why this bashing works well for them. Unfortunately I know a lot of their supporters and it's incredible how much they hate others - at the University of Warsaw one girl actually started yelling a hate speech when another student admitted being gay (during a lecture in Sociology about homosexualism). In order to cheer things up I asked her why she's okay with their presidential candidate being gay, also I told her that I've smoked grass a couple of times and asked whether that makes me evil. Long story short: she fled into a nearby church. PiS supporters are fun.

Also: Somehow the whole Big Bird thing reminds me of Ficus. Unfortunately he didn't make it into congress because of stupid racist laws.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by F4LL0UT
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F4LL0UT: I like to think that without their mud throwing campaigns they could have done a lot worse. (snipped the rest)
Well, latest polls show that they are ahead of governing party right now. And what they recently did, was imho fair criticism over the govt. actions. And it already paid up.

I know that by antagonizing with Donald Tusk they got some rednecks votes, but it's not a winning strategy.

On the other hand, it wasn't this hard to criticise the rulling party and Tusk...
Also, I think more PO voters are united in hate against PiS than the other way around.

The polls show that. Most of the PO voters vote on PO because they don't want PiS to take the lead. This is why they lost so many votes in favor of Palikot without doing anything.

There are more people voting for PiS and Kaczynski than voters who choose PO. Most of them choose PO in fear and hatred towards PiS. And that "flow" won't last forever.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by keeveek
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keeveek: Also, I think more PO voters are united in hate against PiS than the other way around. The polls show that. Most of the PO voters vote on PO because they don't want PiS to take the lead. This is why they lost so many votes in favor of Palikot without doing anything.
True... man, democracy sucks. They should really introduce an "anti-vote" per citizen. You know, everyone not voting for PiS would give them his anti-vote - so you could BOTH make sure they don't win AND vote for the party you actually believe in. And imagine what this would do in America - Reps and Democrats would all vote each other down, it would actually eliminate the two party system. ^^
Post edited October 15, 2012 by F4LL0UT
The tone of these elections is just pitiful. It blows me away that the public accepts politicians that continually slander each other and act like children. The most unfortunate part is that it isn't just attack ads, either! They do it on the floor of Congress!

The question of political attack ads came up during the VP debate last week, both candidates not only skirted the question, but spent several minutes talking about completely unrelated nonsense and never really answered it. They wouldn't take responsibility for the ads they are running. At least it shows they have some shame and they are embarassed by them.

The only good side of it is, I don't know that politics has changed much in the past 200 some years. I've seen posters and ads from prior generations that were just as foolish, the dawn of the internet and TV ad seems to have just propagated them more.
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jkertz: The only good side of it is, I don't know that politics has changed much in the past 200 some years. I've seen posters and ads from prior generations that were just as foolish, the dawn of the internet and TV ad seems to have just propagated them more.
I was watching a historian (can't remember which show) who was asked what would "the founding fathers" think of our politics? (I hate these types of questions/comments, but that's a tangent)

This historian laughed and said: "Are you kidding? They'd probably complement us on how much we've cleaned it up!" (paraphrase from memory)

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Here's some political humor (aimed at Mitt Romney, but it's a jest, not a barb):

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6830834/mitt-romney-style-gangnam-style-parody