Now...don't get me wrong. I really enjoy the whole "indie" renaissance as I like to call it, as many great games are coming out without the horde of shareholders and committees to satisfy BEFORE the gamers.

First some explanation so that you know where I'm coming from...

I know that the general argument is that the game needs to be playable and fun and only later beautiful. I can't agree wit that. Now, I am totally against the whole tech wars when it comes to graphics. Games don't need photorealism, nor some ubershaders or other post processing. But still they should be aesthetically pleasing in my opinion.

Now, indie games today seem to go through a "retro" phase where they go back to the 8-bit era style. For some it works well, but some seem to make it an excuse for having shitty graphics. And I don't mean it in a way that they don't use awesome shaders. Skyrim is beautiful imho, and I've seen some say that it's ugly because it's not using state of the art technology.
I've seen some screens of 8-bit stylized games on greenlight or the Hotline Miami title here. And frankly I don't like the look of them. I realize that the gameplay may be great, but the art design feels lazy and rushed.

The NES had some beautiful games, with very nice art so there's no excuse for such bad pixels.

I wonder if they just want to make the impression "look, it's pixels, it's retro, it doesn't have to be pretty" and count that the younger crowd doesn't realize that the art style is pretty shitty...

But even non-pixelated games suffer from that. MacGuffin's Curse claims to have "charming hand-drawn art", but come on...it was clearly drawn by someone who can't draw and it shows...

Maybe I'm weird, but I sometimes can't take pleasure from a game that plays great, but has unappealing visuals.

I totally agree, actually. It's really making me angry that indie devs use all sorts of excuses for bad presentation. Either a game just looks awfully crappy and they come up with the "only gameplay counts" attitude or they hide behind behind a supposed retro style and desperately look for excuses of creative nature for why they chose it.

My message to indie devs:
Well, guess what, guys: in the late 80's two youngsters were able to create something like Shadow of the Beast with all sorts of technical limitations and crappy tools. Maybe they just were more talented or weren't lazy fucks as you guys?

Edit: Before anyone complains: I'm aware that the devs probably weren't literally "youngsters", just wanted to make it more provoking. :P

A lot of indie games are developed by small teams, if not a single developer, who may not be able to pay for a professional artist. If a developer needs a lot of art assets, and requiring animations is going to compound this, then corners are going to have to be cut somewhere. A lot of the pixelated games back in the 80s would have been made by single developers or small teams just like the indie developers of today, so it's not like there isn't a model to follow.

Also, a lot of the retro aesthetic comes from nostalgia. A lot of indie developers are making games inspired by the ones they grew up with. It's the same thing as how all major Kickstarter projects are 90s PC style RPGs or adventures.

Hotline Miami is a separate case in that its grainy, ugly graphics might be on purpose. It is after all meant to be a hard boiled ultraviolent take on the seedy 1980s Miami criminal underworld.

It depends on the game. For the most part, i'm okay with old graphics (which is why we are all here isn't it). But if a new game has old graphics, i just can't seem to like it. When i say old, i mean nes/snes levels.

Tiny and big in my opinion looked fantastic. I understand that small one man game projects are being made, and they can only do so much. But i can't help but think that the pc is a step too far for their projects. They seem like they could be done on mobile phones with ease.

Being indie an excuse for crappy graphics?

Yes

Being crappy graphics a reason for bad games?

No

Yeah, the question is why many modern games with a retro style struggle to visually beat classics that were developed by just as small teams under worse conditions.

The major problem with mobile phones is the lack of controls.

I've always found it weird how in communities like here we venerate ancient and ugly-looking DOS or Windows 95 games for their gameplay, yet if a game released today doesn't require an ultra-powered PC it's either consolized, casualized, or both.
Edit: Control scheme being a separate issue, echoing Wishbone here.

Well, in japan there were final fantasy ports on the mobile phone. If a game is just run and gun, you dont need much more than arrows and shoot.

With Ipads, and Iphones and all the rest, with apps around 69p (thats like $1) each they are claiming this kind of market. Where as with the pc, there is alot of competition in terms of graphical capability alone.

The indie boom is arguably bigger on mobiles than it is on PCs and consoles since a lot of those apps are made by single developers.

That's assuming we're using the no third party constraints definition of indie, instead of the artsy or rage against the machine definition of indie.

Are you really proposing a "your game must use this much video RAM" restriction on PC releases?

I get your point and I know that this may be the case, but from what I've noticed indies started as projects that wanted to tackle the mainstream game not only gameplay-wise but also art-wise. Take Braid for example. Now they turned rapidly to the retro and I don't think they do it justice. I remember the case of Another World, made "by a single man" and yet it was beautiful.
Pixel graphics don't need professional artists if they're done right. People doing creative work usually have some kind of aesthetic feel and can do better, I think.

Just for the record entire GTA 3 was ported to Android not too long ago, and it feels/plays good. Also, I tried playing SNES games on my phone, and I didn't feel like I was missing something (except maybe bigger screen than my Xperia U has). So controls are not issue, and large games can be made for phones.

I'm just saying that for instance, a game made for a handheld system is specifically designed for it. While a 100 hour plus rpg is designed for being at home.

If i was a dev, i'd put my game on a platform suited to it.