FlintlockJazz: Dark Fantasy should be about hard choices, what do you sacrifice in order to save what you believe in, etc. When you have no choice in the matter, then it ceases to matter and that's the problem: whatever you do the same things will always play out in a Bioware game, and that's why I have ceased to look for C&C in a Bioware game.
SimonG: I think that works pretty well in DA. Up until Act 3 that is. They should have put that game on hold or made a proper ending DLC. But I still liked it, the whole "in the middle of things you can't control". And I personally don't think you need "White Knights" to cheer for in a dark fantasy. Everybody has his pros and cons, just stick with what you think is the best.
And I think DA:O was dead on about hard choices. Especially Orzammer was pretty much the choice Fallout 1 makers originally wanted with Junktown. And the option of the Kingsmeet, were you had to let one of your companions go. None of the DA games really had "the best" endings. For everything you gained, you needed to give up something else.
I don't think you have understood what I meant with the 'white knights' thing. I say they need white knights only when they have black knights, to prevent factions from turning into moustachio twirlers, but really that's to try and compensate having black knights to begin with since you shouldn't be having blatantly evil characters anyway unless you're talking about cthulhu or alien horrors. Really, you shouldn't have either, in dark fantasy people should be people, with both flaws and virtues to make you understand them even as you don't agree with them. In short: no one cares when it's just twats v twats, and unfortunately that's how many of Bioware's characters and settings come off nowadays to me. Their characters have become whiny and self important, and I actually think that the main reason I don't play their games now is because I just can't stand their characters, as they have become the type of people I try to avoid in real life let alone not want to adventure with. And this is coming from a guy who likes gritty characters in his game.
Orzammer was not about hard choices, it was about the lack of information to make the choice and the only difference being a text blurb at the end. Once you know what actually happens it's easy to 'win' that. Kingsmeet, no you didn't have to let one of your companions go, on the contrary you can 'win' and get one crowned king and the other recruited into the Grey Wardens, which makes it the 'best' ending and the others you failing to pick the right choices. Another case is when you have to choose between killing the Arl's son or sacrificing the mother to free him...except that you don't have to do either, as Bioware chickens out of forcing you to choose by presenting you with Option C to go get the mages and save both of them, making the first two choices as the 'bad' choices. Not that they had done much to make people angst over the choice by making the mother as unlikeable as possible and blatantly to blame (which, since it's a game, many people would take as carte blanche to kill her off without a second thought).
In short, in my opinion Bioware doesn't have the guts to actually make the player think and when they do they fuck it up. There's the occasional glimmer of a good idea but somewhere along the line it gets fucked up.
EDIT: Oh, and just to clarify one thing: when I say that making a choice should require sacrifice, I don't mean contrived sacrifice either and you should still gain something from it as well. The Virmire choice in ME is to me one of the biggest pile of wank I have ever seen to be honest, the whole situation is contrived to make you have a choice in the most pathetic way possible. It actually has consequence, but the whole situation is just bollocks.