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Yep.
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ZFR: Go. Does that count?
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Aniki: Nope. Go is a Chinese game.
It seems you're right. I was introduced to it by a Japanese guy, but it is a Chinese game.
Snowkatt, you're the one who is not being conducive to discussion.

If you knew what you were talking you wouldn't make ridiculous claims like putting Final Fantasy VIII in a list of RPGs with awful grinding mechanics. That game is the epitome of non-grinding. You don't even have to fight non-boss enemies past the first disc if you don't want to. Grandia 1 and 2 are also laughable, because those games were specifically designed in ways where players were naturally restricted by the plot structure from grinding too much and for a forward momentum. These were games where the developers went out of their way to make it smooth for people who didn't want to fight too much.

In something like Final Fantasy VII you can certainly fight the same monsters for hours to level up a materia if you want to, but there's precious little reason to when its difficulty is balanced so most players can coast through it while running from a lot of fights. That's how they get the wide audiences for those games, because if you just follow the plot and switch in and out materia as you go, it's easy to reach the end of the game without ever having to stop to level up. Yes, RPG developers sometimes include side quests that reward you for powerful setups, though a lot of times there are multiple ways to get those. (In Final Fantasy VII itself, getting good at breeding chocobos and chocobo racing can gain you powerful stuff that in turn can help you out in other places to get more powerful stuff without ever stopping to grind a repetitive mob. Everyone is well aware of the powerfulness of materia like Knights of the Round that you get through other means than grinding.)

I mention Final Fantasy VII because it's the most popular, but this how it goes in nearly every other RPG since the early 90s. Unlike you, I have facts on my side. Go look at the interviews conducted with these developers over the last two decades. You'll see countless mentions of how they want a broad player base and want to make it easy to play so they lessen things like grinding. Many of them, especially Yuji Horii, creator of Dragon Quest will talk about how in the 80s leveling up characters was a fun thing to do for players because it was new, but as time went on, they had to figure out other ways to engage players and so they designed RPGs to reduce grinding and emphasis other points such as tactical elemental/crafting systems, monster collection, mini-games, special in-world mechanics and so on.

I mean it's ridiculous that you say something like "I mean the Atelier series sure looks grindy to me." Do you actually have a point to make about that series based on experience? Because I do and it is that in a game like that, where you often rewarded with a unique ending for going through the campaign quickly without hardly any leveling up, it's rather hard to make a case that it is grindy. You could make a case that games that revolve around a home base where you must collect resources to make things can feel grindy because you have to repeatedly go into the same areas, but then I could make a case that any game design concerns the repetition of fundamental mechanics, even the least grindy RPGs. We could have a conversation, but you can't possibly expect anyone to take you seriously when you do things like imply that you're looking at a long-running series of games and saying, "Japanese RPGs are nothing but grind because, look! That games looks like it fits my preconceived notions!" It's silly.

You need to actually base your argument on something of merit rather than "la, la, la I can't hear you, this is my opinion, go away, you big meanie."
I adore Japanese games. I even have a few Japanese language games on the Super Nintendo, those being Fire Emblem Seisen no Keifu, Super Robot Taisen 3rd, and I also have the Japanese version of Super Mario Land 2.

Some of my favorite games include:

Radiata Stories.
Fire Emblem series, mostly the Tellius sub-series.
Tactics Ogre looks good, I have the PSP one, I just need a PSP.
SRT and Project X Zone.
Tekken series.
Nintendo games.
Xenoblade.
Final Fantasies III, IV, V, VI, and X.
Baten Kaitos.
Earth Defense Force series.
Castlevania Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night.
Dead or Alive series.
King of Fighters (despite being truly awful at this one).
The Last Story.
Contra series.
Bravely Default (need to spend a bit more time with this one).
Vanquish.
Mega Man Zero series.
Sky Crawlers and Ace Combat.
Shining Force series (been meaning to get into this one more).

There's a good bit more, but this is a good list for now.
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Sazanamistyle: Oh boy. You've opened the floodgates. Prepare for the stupid negative joke posts about how somebody's an expert on an entire country's output of games because they've only played the minority that have been translated. This will especially be rich in terms of RPGs, where the generalizations are laughably untrue. But hey, ignorance about other countries is an eternal human constant, so what can I say?

If you want the best of Japanese games you can play in English, these days you're going to need a handheld, whether that's a tablet or phone, or the Vita/3DS or even the holder PSP/DS. Right now, for instance, there are all sorts of small Japanese games being sold digitally on the Vita and 3DS shops that absolutely compare to the rich originality of PC indie gaming.

Unfortunately, because as you state, there's a certain brain-dead follow the leader mentality going on in console gaming and a lot of console gamers seem to be caught up in that, not as many of the standouts get translated. For instance, there's still no confirmation of translation for the Yokai Watch games, which are utterly fantabulous RPGs about a kid who solves everyday problems in his town caused by mischief-making spirits. It's original, creative and innovative in all the ways a generation-defining masterpiece should be, but it has very little perception outside Japan. (That's 3DS, by the way.)

Since you're on GOG, though, you probably won't scoff too much at picking up a DS or PSP for old games, and there are more fantastic RPGs on those platforms than you could probably play in a lifetime. Also, because it seems like you might have an interest in old games, the 3DS' virtual console is great for that, but more than that M2 along with Sega has made the Sega 3D Classics one of the best reasons to own the 3DS. There are currently 11 games in the series and they are all faithfully recreated from old console and arcade classics, with awesome 3D quirks that replicate the TVs and arcade cabinets of those days. Wish you could have the experience of playing on old tube TVs with their curved monitors and scanlines again? There's an option for that. Wish you could emulate the experience of swerving left or right on an arcade cabinet complete with the squeaks of the hinges in the cabinet emulated? There's an option for that. Sonic, Bare Knuckle, Space Harrier, Outrun, Shinobi. It's utterly glorious and probably one of the greatest tributes to retro gaming the history of forever. Depending on how well a packaged version does in Japan this year, the collection may also continue to other games in the future too!

In short, portables and in particular the 3DS provide many of the peaks of Japanese-designed games these days, but you may have to have the Japanese version to get all the games you want and know a little Japanese to be able to play them.
Pardon me but no one here is actually claiming to be an expert, nor is anyone claiming seniority of opinion. It's all just opinions here, including yours. Are you trying to say that only a basement-dwelling weaboo or full-time hikikomori is allowed to have an opinion on Japanese games? Not even they have played or even know the majority of Japanese games, it would be quite impossible considering how many games that country makes every year.
There is a metric brickton of Japanese games available in English, more than anyone could finish in a lifetime unless you're a NEET and live to be 100 years old. I daresay that it's entirely possible to have an opinion on Japanese games even by judging only the ones that have been translated into English. It's true that some amazing gems have never been released outside Japan, my favorite example is Tobal No.2 which is still my favorite Beat em Up game despite it being 14 years old. But to suggest that the minority of translated games aren't enough to form an opinion on Japanese games isn't a convincing argument. According to Japanese friends & acquaintances, what we in the West get to play isn't the crap stuff but the cream of the crop - in general. That's what they say, not my words. Surely Japan has many cool indie gems that never see the light of the day outside Japan but you haven't shared with us any examples.
As for Youkai Watch being original...I'm not convinced that this "Pokemon with ghosts" is a good example for originality of Japanese games that aren't (yet) available in other languages. I haven't played it so this is only an impression but after watching some gameplay videos I truly don't see what is supposed to be so great about this.
If you could list some cool original indie games from Japan that are positively different from all the games that have been translated, I'd very much appreciate it.
awalterj, I'm referring specifically to GOG forum posters who piss and moan and whine every time a Japanese or Japanese-styled game gets released on GOG and make stupid jokes about tentacle rape and lolis, effectually basing their entire perception of Japanese gaming on a minority of the produced material. They make those threads tedious to wade through.

No, of course you don't have encyclopedic knowledge on something to comment on it, but no part of my post implied that. You do need to be able to specific how broadly or narrowly your comments apply to a given thing. If you're going to make a generalized statement about Japanese gaming, you need to be able to back it up at least somewhat or narrow it down to the issue you're familiar with. Anything less is a bad form of thinking about any issue in any manner whatsoever. That's just common sense. I'm through with people who lack it.

You talk about Yokai Watch, but you don't have the first clue about what it does that RPGs haven't done before (the roulette-based battle system, the touch-based mini-game status effects, the first person close-up searching sequences, the multi-player random hunts that literally switch the battle mechanics to a different genre, the way time travel is used, the way the game's plot is structured and so on) and just write it off as Pokemon with ghosts, which is an absurd oversimplification. Are you truly interested in learning about some of the games that are out there and talking about it? Or is this just a smokescreen for me to take my time introducing games while you respond point by point with, "That's not innovative because of this" kind of list wars thing? Because I've been there and done that and have no wish to waste my time.
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micktiegs_8: The really good JRPGs tend to be on the consoles which is a downer. I can't remember the last time I had something like Star Ocean 2 on a PC, but then again I think the days of masterpiece JRPGs has been and gone already :(

still got my UMD by the way... now if only I had a system to play it on.
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MarioFanaticXV: While the SNES was clearly the height of the genre, the GBA, DS, and PSP revived the genre.
Ah almost forgot a game I played on SNES. Bahamut Lagoon. Well, it was a ROM because it was a japanese exclusive game I think.
For anyone who likes JRPGs, might I suggest Septerra Core? Sure it was made by westerners but you wouldn't know unless someone told you.
I prefer Japanese games over Western ones. Harvest Moon, Phoenix Wright, Tsukihime, Snatcher, Valkyria Chronicles, Persona 4...all have done right by me. When playing western games, I often have a feeling of disappointment or boredom. Manga and anime are also my preference for the other mediums.
I love Final Fantasy, Legend of Zelda, Star Fox, Kirby, all Nintendo games basically.
I loved JRPGs on the SNES but once I went PC with games like Fallout and Thief there was no going back for me. Just much more to my taste I guess, darker and more serious and when they're funny it's more social satire.
Besides the obvious franchises like Final Fantasy (singlehandedly got me into console gaming), Legend of Zelda, Pokemon,.. and stuff that's not THAT big a franchise, I'm really into the Touhou games. Not only that franchise, pretty much any bullet hell shooter. Or similar genres.
Used to love JRPGs but my favourite series keep getting discontinued. Suikoden, Shadow Hearts, Persona 5 has spent an eternity in development. Also FF has gone to pants and Square don't make their sidegames anymore like Chrono Trigger.
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MarioFanaticXV: While the SNES was clearly the height of the genre, the GBA, DS, and PSP revived the genre.
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micktiegs_8: Ah almost forgot a game I played on SNES. Bahamut Lagoon. Well, it was a ROM because it was a japanese exclusive game I think.
If we're talking about Japan-exclusives, you should really look into Live-A-Live. Amazing game.
I'm currently playing Fate/Stay Night. And you can't get much more weeabo than a visual novel.

I've cleared Saber and Rin and I'm progressing through the Heaven's Feel route right now.

Sakura's a slut.

Also, I played Tsukihime on my phone. The experience convinced me that tablets are the best platform to enjoy visual novels on.
Post edited November 17, 2014 by j0ekerr