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Arteveld: Oh, also, Firaxis is usually mod friendly, at least, they were. ;D
Still is, with the mod tools for CivV for example allow you to completely change the game.. plus tbh the community is split down the middle over CivV, and many prefered Railroads for fast games just the micromanagementphiles seem to be very vocal...
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Psyringe: I'm probably sounding bitter by now (though I'm really not, I'm just focusing on the negatives here because apparently they haven't been mentioned yet, while pretty much sitting onb the fence myself), but mod friendliness is another sad issue. Modding for Civ5 is severely limited compared to its predecessors. Supposedly the DLL SDK is going to give the modders some much needed freedom, but it still hasn't arrived. In July, producer Dennis Shirk (one of the guys who still _is_ at Firaxis) said that it was "on it's way" and "almost ready for beta", only to rescind on that in December, saying now that it's "still many months away". Many Civ5 modders have lost hope by now and quit. After all, Civ5 was released 16 months ago. Add the "still many months away" on top of that, compare it to the 6 months that the SDK release took for Civ4, and you know how much Firaxis currently cares about modders ...
That is a bit worrying indeed. Though the Civ games have not only a much longer 'lifespan' but also a muich bigger fanbase, so, even arriving late, many people will enjoy the mods. The lack of modding capability [be it on day 1, or soon after release] for the XCOM, on the other hand, might have far worse effects, leaving only a small group of people interested.

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Psyringe: I agree with the rest of your post though, apart from not having played the new Pirates! or XCOM: Apocalypse yet. :)
If You liked the originals, with an open mind, You'll enjoy the hell out of those.;)


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wodmarach: Still is, with the mod tools for CivV for example allow you to completely change the game.. plus tbh the community is split down the middle over CivV, and many prefered Railroads for fast games just the micromanagementphiles seem to be very vocal...
So, taking into account what Psyringe wrote, while still being limited in comparison to Civ4, the modding tools available still manage to do quite a lot?
Huh, I've got a magazine sitting here with an enormous article about it. Would anyone like me to read it and post pertinent facts? (Maybe someone already did that, I dunno).
I wonder what the odds are of EA doing the same thing with Syndicate? Ah yes, precisely none.
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Runehamster: Huh, I've got a magazine sitting here with an enormous article about it. Would anyone like me to read it and post pertinent facts? (Maybe someone already did that, I dunno).
Anything more than what Angry Joe mentioned? Please do. ;)
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Arteveld: If You liked the originals, with an open mind, You'll enjoy the hell out of those.;)
They just climbed a couple of ranks on my "games to play" list. ;)

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Arteveld: So, taking into account what Psyringe wrote, while still being limited in comparison to Civ4, the modding tools available still manage to do quite a lot?
Yep, that's probably a correct assessment. Though Civ5 modding is odd in several regards. On one hand, people can change the LUA scripts and do quite a bit there. On the other hand, usually simple things like adding a new unit faced seemingly insurmountable difficulties at first, IIRC even texture replacers were hard to do. A lot of modding revolves around 4 tools (some of these are not official Firaxis tools, but fan-made tools that circumvent the limitations employed by Firaxis). Without these tools, Civ5 modding would've been even more stunted than it currently is. Last month I read that Rhye, creator of one of the most popular Civ4 mods, is considering to abandon his planned Civ5 mod and just release the map (that he has already done) if Firaxis doesn't release the SDK in any reasonable timeframe. He'd be following other popular modders (some of which returned to Civ4 modding).

Anyway, with regard to the new XCOM game: We'll have to see. Currently we can't tell how mod-friendly the game is going to be. Based on their last games, I think it's unlikely that they are giving the game full mod support, and how moddable the game is will depend on the community's ability to come up with tools to allow them to circumvent the official limitations.
Post edited January 13, 2012 by Psyringe
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Runehamster: Huh, I've got a magazine sitting here with an enormous article about it. Would anyone like me to read it and post pertinent facts? (Maybe someone already did that, I dunno).
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Arteveld: Anything more than what Angry Joe mentioned? Please do. ;)
I have no idea who that is o.o
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Arteveld: Anything more than what Angry Joe mentioned? Please do. ;)
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Runehamster: I have no idea who that is o.o
Oh, I somehow managed to overlook your post. Facts would be very welcome indeed! :)
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Arteveld: So, taking into account what Psyringe wrote, while still being limited in comparison to Civ4, the modding tools available still manage to do quite a lot?
Most of the people complaining want to completely change the game (making it an FPS engine for example) but for everything else from game rules to nations etc etc pretty much everything is alterable.
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Psyringe: Yep, that's probably a correct assessment. Though Civ5 modding is odd in several regards. On one hand, people can change the LUA scripts and do quite a bit there. On the other hand, usually simple things like adding a new unit faced seemingly insurmountable difficulties at first, IIRC even texture replacers were hard to do. A lot of modding revolves around 4 tools (some of these are not official Firaxis tools, but fan-made tools that circumvent the limitations employed by Firaxis). Without these tools, Civ5 modding would've been even more stunted than it currently is. Last month I read that Rhye, creator of one of the most popular Civ4 mods, is considering to abandon his planned Civ5 mod and just release the map (that he has already done) if Firaxis doesn't release the SDK in any reasonable timeframe. He'd be following other popular modders (some of which returned to Civ4 modding).

Anyway, with regard to the new XCOM game: We'll have to see. Currently we can't tell how mod-friendly the game is going to be. Based on their last games, I think it's unlikely that they are giving the game full mod support, and how moddable the game is will depend on the community's ability to come up with tools to allow them to circumvent the official limitations.
While limited mods are still better than no mods/community bugfixes, it does tell us that the modding community there is quite skilled. Reminds me how the early C64 musicians programmed their own software. Anyhow, i would LOVE to see the new XCOM being modded into something that works exactly like the original, that would probably make everyone happy. I guess Firaxis could be informed that modding support is more than welcome. Hell, someone might just as well mod in all the bugs of the original. A man can dream.. a man can dream..;>

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Runehamster: I have no idea who that is o.o
A dangerously hyped guy who talks about games i guess, i've only seen a few of his videos. In his most recent vid he commented on the Game Informer's preview of the game, pointing out a few changes. I'm not sure if he pointed them all out, or if he pointed them correctly.

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wodmarach: Most of the people complaining want to completely change the game (making it an FPS engine for example) but for everything else from game rules to nations etc etc pretty much everything is alterable.
If the modders could make an FPS ouf of the new XCOM, chances are, it'd be better than the 2k Marin thing. Given that we'd still want to play it in 2020 when an alpha comes out. I'm more interested in heavier gameplay changes, as i've mentioned above, modding the new XCOM into the classic XCOM would be trippy.;D
A new article with some screenshots:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/13/why-you-should-care-about-xcom-enemy-unknown.aspx
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Psyringe: Oh, I somehow managed to overlook your post. Facts would be very welcome indeed! :)
Lemme 'splain. No, there is too much. Lemme sum up.

The article begins with a brief explanation of who's working on it, and why, and some description of the original games and their success. Some very general thoughts mentioned in the article include the fact that the game's entirely procedurally generated for extra replayability (the storyline is not procedurally generated exactly - apparently they used fake newscasts and special missions (that are NOT procedurally generated, but tactics and equipment can vary for both sides) that take place at certain points during the game to build an overall story.

The article continues to talk about the global view. Apparently the global view remains largely unchanged - it's still real-time pausable, and you can see UFO's and the various nations and so forth. If a UFO is spotted, you can dispatch fighters to get it, and if your fighters can catch up to it there's some sort of minigame (apparently similar to the original, only now it's an interactive minigame). The article does seem to indicate that these jet fighters are customizable as in the original, since it mentions that some UFO's might be too fast to catch early on.

The article uses Africa as an example of the diplomacy. Specifically mentioning abductions making the population worried, it talks about picking and choosing where to respond and where to ignore attacks. Also, it mentions that countries can still request technology or equipment, particularly when they feel unsafe and unprotected but know that you have advanced technology. The game emphasizes this point several times - apparently there's still a very heavy influence on juggling resources and research between mass production of old tech and research of new tech. Biological, technological, and psychological research on alien remains and equipment are all confirmed.

As part of the tactical screen, the article specifically mentions training an officer to sergeant level. The sergeant is a skilled sniper, and the person writing the article apparently ordered his officer training school to take the lessons he's learned and make all the soldiers trained in the barracks have stronger morale. The article also mentions healing - apparently the old system is back, where soldiers can take weeks to heal if they're severely injured on a mission.

Different regions must be kept happy. Each one has different benefits that can be granted to X-com if they feel safe and protected and don't withdraw from the sixteen-member Funding Council. The article also specifically mentions coverage - apparently surveillance satellites can be put into orbit using X-com's resources, and depending on how well researched these are and how many there are different UFO's and other alien activity can be detected.

Okay, on to the ground tactical stuff. There are mini-cutscenes at various points (again, apparently procedurally generated in-engine stuff). Permadeath is still in place, with the writer making a big deal out of losing one of his troops (the game also seems to be FAR more violent than the originals, definitely M rating from the description). Everything's still turn-based on tactical mode, including some old-school treats like grenades exploding when you end your turn. There are supposedly a lot of roles - specifically mentioned are medics, support, heavy gunners, and snipers. Cover's also very important, and I think judging from the screenshots that the troops automatically take cover behind objects (there doesn't seem to be an option to change stances, at least it's not mentioned/shown).

The writer mentions that after his soldier died, some of the other troops' morale broke, and apparently morale plays a big part in the game. I'm looking at more screenshots right now, and from the looks of it there's quite a bit of cover-based action with multiple weapons per soldier and a variety of actions they can take (not sure what they are; I see icons for firing different kinds of shots, grenades, examining, and defending). I'm also looking at a fairly detailed stat breakdown; it seems to be very RPG-like when determining shots fired. Multiple levels of playing field are confirmed, with soldiers climbing up on a roof to fire down at enemies. All the troops have special perk-like abilities that seem to enable them to perform super-human feats related to their classes. Environments are apparently destructible (it doesn't specify whether they're fully destructible or not).

Back to the base! The article mentions that there are exclusive tech trees - at each levelup, there's an either/or option (which seems to be class-related). Interestingly enough, newbie troops when just hired are plain vanilla troops, and then take on a class automatically when they levelup (so there's no way of knowing what your new soldier is going to be best at). Oh, and although this doesn't really belong here, a picture caption I just read said that ammo management was removed. The base itself is apparently left to the individual to design, with a neat side-view picture that shows the different levels. You have to dig deeper to expand your base according to the accompanying faction, so apparently there's a lot of tactical base construction.

Okay, more random stuff (mostly noticed from pictures and captions). No ammo management. Special items such as a battle-scanning grenade that permit soldiers to see the battlefield out of their line-of-sight. Special PC features may include a different full-level tactical map. Weapons and abilities are class-based, but armor and items aren't. Apparently all environmental objects are destructible provided your weapon is powerful enough. Saving and loading will be unlimited but an Ironman mode may be included. The hardest difficulty mode is called "Classic." Aliens profiled in the sidebars (gosh, this had to be the best GameInformer issue ever) include the Sectoids, the Mutons, the Cyberdiscs, and the Thin Men.

I probably didn't cover everything. It was an enormous article. If you have questions about it, I would be happy to see if it was answered in the article. I'm so excited about this game! (Definitely preordering it).
Thanks, that was a wealth of information! :) (Can I really only give you +1 rep for all that work? Hmph. ;) )

Sounds indeed like it could be interesting. :)
Thanks for the intel, Rune!:)
Looking at the screenies set my mind at ease quite abit. The global view, research, isometric battlefields all still look to be there.