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Aliasalpha: It'd have to be for fable 3 alone or it'd be giving a disadvantage to the type of person who thinks that playing avatar the last airbender for 5 minutes to get 1000 gamerscore is beneath them

If it would count gamerscore from all games you've got, then it seems that achievement whores have new way of epeen flexing.
Why do you want them? Like professional sports they provide nothing of lasting value and often detract from the activity they were designed to venerate. How's this for an achievement; play a game through to the end without crack, hack or walkthrough and with no purpose than to play the game; you know... like it's meant to be done.
What exactly is Gamer Score? Is that the G130 I saw when I logged into GFWL to download the Insane Map Pack for B:AA?
Post edited May 28, 2010 by kalirion
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ThomasPierson: Why do you want them? Like professional sports they provide nothing of lasting value and often detract from the activity they were designed to venerate. How's this for an achievement; play a game through to the end without crack, hack or walkthrough and with no purpose than to play the game; you know... like it's meant to be done.

Didn't say anything about a crack, hack, walkthrough, mod, konami code, blood code, easter egg, or anything like that. Maybe I should've replaced the word "achievements" (which incidentally looks be viewed upon by many as a dirty word) with the word "goals."
As for why they can be fun, which is the only thing I'm getting at here, this guy summed it up pretty well:
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LordCinnamon: Actually, I like achievements if they motivate you to try something weird/crazy/hard you would never try during normal gameplay. For example, in Toki Tori, there is an achievement to fill a certain room with 42 blocks. Well, turns out there is only one way to do that, and 42 is the absolute maximum. This results in a sort of mini game (filling rooms with blocks is not a regular goal in the game) which is fun to solve.
But the statistics achievements are very boring (and lazy).
However, the sort of achievements that are actually fun are relatively hard to come up with, you'd have to know the game quite well. So even if the technical problems were to magically disappear, I still think a satisfying implementation of the system would be unlikely.
Maybe we should work together to make up our own fun achievements for various games. It would require through discussions with everyone and would probably be altered a lot but it could work for fun.
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lukaszthegreat: Well we can create our own list of achievements in games' forums....
and people would update it...
Like:
Thread in fallout forum:
Fallout 2 Achievements.
Content of the thread:
Here is list of various achievements, if you completed one post it so your name can be added. If you have idea of achievement post it and it might be added.
Achievements:
Got married
list of names
Become a slaver, killed Horrigan using only melee weapons, save Gecko, Blow up Gecko, Fix the radio, find waterchip, find Raider's base, join brotherhood, fully resolve Wright's son poisoning,
and so on and on.
lots of work and that would probably work only with big games like already mentioned fallout.

Haha It just so happens that I would have all of those achievements. Don't forget "mutate toe".
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kalirion: What exactly is Gamer Score? Is that the G130 I saw when I logged into GFWL to download the Insane Map Pack for B:AA?

Yes, that's it. Each achievement has a point value (anywhere from 0 to 500 points); when you earn that achievement that amount is added to your "gamerscore". Each achievement can only be earned once per gamertag unless you get the other system's version of the game and earn it there as well.
Aside from Fable III's special weapons, gamerscore doesn't actually do anything or serve any useful purpose. It's also far less significant on the PC; every 360 game has to include achievements, whereas on the PC only "Games for Windows Live"-branded games have to include them.
Post edited May 29, 2010 by Arkose
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ThomasPierson: Why do you want them? Like professional sports they provide nothing of lasting value and often detract from the activity they were designed to venerate. How's this for an achievement; play a game through to the end without crack, hack or walkthrough and with no purpose than to play the game; you know... like it's meant to be done.
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bowlingotter: Didn't say anything about a crack, hack, walkthrough, mod, konami code, blood code, easter egg, or anything like that. Maybe I should've replaced the word "achievements" (which incidentally looks be viewed upon by many as a dirty word) with the word "goals."
As for why they can be fun, which is the only thing I'm getting at here, this guy summed it up pretty well:
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LordCinnamon: Actually, I like achievements if they motivate you to try something weird/crazy/hard you would never try during normal gameplay. For example, in Toki Tori, there is an achievement to fill a certain room with 42 blocks. Well, turns out there is only one way to do that, and 42 is the absolute maximum. This results in a sort of mini game (filling rooms with blocks is not a regular goal in the game) which is fun to solve.
But the statistics achievements are very boring (and lazy).
However, the sort of achievements that are actually fun are relatively hard to come up with, you'd have to know the game quite well. So even if the technical problems were to magically disappear, I still think a satisfying implementation of the system would be unlikely.

Sorry if it seemed like I exploded all over you. Yeah, in a way achievements are a dirty word because they are usually celebrations of mediocrity (Achievements I've seen include one for installing a game, taking a tutorial, upgrading a weapon and similar pointless or necessary activities). Or they are some form of status symbol. No offense, but I don't care if you unlocked an achievement for playing a game on it's hardest difficulty and winning; all that means to me is that you have much more free time that I do.
I don't need the game telling me how great it is that I beat a puzzle or give me a "virtual trophy" for completing Act One; isn't that part of the game? If you were to get an achievement, give me one for playing a game in a completely unorthodox manner and still make it to the end.
For my part, I believe that beating a game is far less important than the experience of playing itself. I love picking up a title and letting the world fall away for a few hours while I live the adventures of a Dragoon or bend my mind to the task of building the perfect machine or solving the secrets of a long dead race.
As Shepard Book said in Firefy; "...because how you get there is the worthier part."
Achievements are a distraction for me, something that lowers the value of the game since I don't need to be told when I accomplish something. Others seem to enjoy achievements and see them as added value.
Adding a simple achievements on / off check box in the game options would solve the problem for everyone. I would much prefer the Dev dollars be spent on better game play rather than coding "bravo" popups and stat software into a game.
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bowlingotter: Didn't say anything about a crack, hack, walkthrough, mod, konami code, blood code, easter egg, or anything like that. Maybe I should've replaced the word "achievements" (which incidentally looks be viewed upon by many as a dirty word) with the word "goals."
As for why they can be fun, which is the only thing I'm getting at here, this guy summed it up pretty well:
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ThomasPierson: Sorry if it seemed like I exploded all over you. Yeah, in a way achievements are a dirty word because they are usually celebrations of mediocrity (Achievements I've seen include one for installing a game, taking a tutorial, upgrading a weapon and similar pointless or necessary activities). Or they are some form of status symbol. No offense, but I don't care if you unlocked an achievement for playing a game on it's hardest difficulty and winning; all that means to me is that you have much more free time that I do.
I don't need the game telling me how great it is that I beat a puzzle or give me a "virtual trophy" for completing Act One; isn't that part of the game? If you were to get an achievement, give me one for playing a game in a completely unorthodox manner and still make it to the end.
For my part, I believe that beating a game is far less important than the experience of playing itself. I love picking up a title and letting the world fall away for a few hours while I live the adventures of a Dragoon or bend my mind to the task of building the perfect machine or solving the secrets of a long dead race.
As Shepard Book said in Firefy; "...because how you get there is the worthier part."

I see your point and agree somewhat. I too do not care if I have an achievement telling me I completed a chapter of a game that would have happened anyway. Where I see achievements as a veritable supplement to the game experience is when they suggest new goals that you may not have otherwise thought of to work towards. Like if Wing Commander had a "Destroy 100 Kilrathi Ships with the original ship cannon" or something. Or a "Complete the third mission in less than 20 minutes" in Dune 2.
There's a difference between achievements that enhance the experience and replayability of a game and those that point out the obvious. I would have been hoping for the former. But it's clear that there are far too many technical roadblocks to make that viable regardless.
Post edited June 02, 2010 by bowlingotter
Wouldn't it be possible, at least for games with a multiplayer component over a network (TCP/IP, IPX, ect.) to monitor activity through that port? I know it's possible to monitor another computer and even observe the programs that are running (PC Anywhere, Remote Desktop, and so on) would something like that; a "bot" or something, work for recording activity and creating a record of activity.... or is this another one of those insanely difficult things?
Achievements? Who cares?
Achievements are just an excuse to tie the player to an online platform, even when he plays a solo game. Stop giving credits to this unneeded feature please.
The way achievements work today is nothing more than DRM. And GOG is a non-DRM place if I remember correctly...
Post edited June 03, 2010 by DarthKaal
More meta-gaming why not?
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DarthKaal: Achievements? Who cares?
Achievements are just an excuse to tie the player to an online platform, even when he plays a solo game. Stop giving credits to this unneeded feature please.
The way achievements work today is nothing more than DRM. And GOG is a non-DRM place if I remember correctly...

I fail to see the connection between "achievements" and DRM. You're assuming that if achievements were introduced (as in, little side-goals to pursue in a game apart from the primary path) that they would be used as a way to verify ownership of a game?
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DarthKaal: Achievements? Who cares?
Achievements are just an excuse to tie the player to an online platform, even when he plays a solo game. Stop giving credits to this unneeded feature please.
The way achievements work today is nothing more than DRM. And GOG is a non-DRM place if I remember correctly...
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bowlingotter: I fail to see the connection between "achievements" and DRM. You're assuming that if achievements were introduced (as in, little side-goals to pursue in a game apart from the primary path) that they would be used as a way to verify ownership of a game?

He means that in order to accomplish the kind of achievements you wanted, GOG would have to tie its games to some kind of online service or client, which is really no different than existing DRM schemes like Steam. Its not the achievements themselves that are the problem, its the reporting of those achievements to the public that introduces what could be considered a DRM layer to GOG's games.
Post edited June 03, 2010 by cogadh