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General discussion (archive)Abandonia...some questions(139 posts)(139 posts)
(139 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: The thing is that 1 copy don't really preserve the game... Just some guy making money with it... For me piracy do help for preservation of games. I made the whole thread cause it will be nice to have those games here... If they sell it ok...if they can put them for free it's ok too...
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Gremmi: But again there, you're confusing morality and legality. GOG can't just put random games up, even for free, simply because they're on abandonware sites.
No no no you didn't get the point. GOG can put them with the agreement of the owners ;)
Legality in US? Dude laws in your country are so f....d up
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: Ps. It's not illegal to resell a game that you own an original copy of, FYI.
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SimonG: Not as easy as you think. Depends on country, method of distribution and DRM.
Enlighten me? Since these are games that 99% of the time has been distributed through physical copies, reselling such an item being illegal is news to me?
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: No no no you didn't get the point. GOG can put them with the agreement of the owners
But you know that Abandonia -don't- have the agreement of the owners, right? I'm just clarifying here, because if you're fully aware of all this I'm not sure why you even brought up Abandonware in the first place.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: I'll be the first to admit I download loads of stuff. Doesn't make abandonware any less of a nonsense term.
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Barefoot_Monkey: It's not a nonsense term; it's a descriptive term. It's so much easier than saying "software which can't be legally obtained anymore, other than as used copies" over and over.
Piracy is actually more of a nonsense term than abandonware ever can be. I don't know the origins of that word. But the german equivalent was especially created and place into the common usage by the record industry (with expensive campaigns and whatnot). It is "robbery-copying", which is even more nonsense than piracy.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Gremmi: I think the point others were making is that some abandonware sites (not all, but some) have a policy of preservation, rather than distribution. When I was a part of the original HOTU, we explicitly took down the downloads for anything that was found for sale, even if the original developer or publisher had long since vanished and it was literally just some guy selling his copy he found. Blankly going 'but it's still piracy' isn't a counterpoint to that, as they're all fully aware it is.
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Longcat: Well, I have yet to see a game cease to exist because it was not "preserved" by an abandonware site. Just because it isn't up on the net, doesn't mean it's lost to humanity.

I can see how you are thinking you are doing a noble thing "preserving" games for future generations, but to me it seems like a means to justify yourselves. Like I said, it's the term that annoys me, not the fact that abandonware sites exist.
Ok than we will make a pettition here that you make 100000 copies of Karateka legally for all the fans of the game... Can you do that? Yes it is a noble thing to share with younger gamers the history of gaming. Games are not only MW3 & Skyrim... I have neighbours 14-15 y.o. that don't know what is a floppy disk... and for them gaming starts with Modern Warfare series & shits like that...
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: I'll be the first to admit I download loads of stuff. Doesn't make abandonware any less of a nonsense term.
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Barefoot_Monkey: It's not a nonsense term; it's a descriptive term. It's so much easier than saying "software which can't be legally obtained anymore, other than as used copies" over and over.
No. It is a nonsene term because again and again, it makes people confuse it with freeware and think that it is somehow more legal to distribute such software just because you can't but it anywhere anymore.

If you want to use a longer term it should be "software which can't be legally obtained anymore, other than as used copies, therefore we have taken the liberty of distributing them for free, even though we don't own the license to it and it hasn't been officially freewared(also known as piracy)"
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: No no no you didn't get the point. GOG can put them with the agreement of the owners
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Gremmi: But you know that Abandonia -don't- have the agreement of the owners, right? I'm just clarifying here, because if you're fully aware of all this I'm not sure why you even brought up Abandonware in the first place.
My idea was that games like this will be easily lost in time if companies like GOG don't make something about it. To be honest I've never heard about Teenagent before coming to GOG...so yes they help with that for sure.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Gremmi: But you know that Abandonia -don't- have the agreement of the owners, right? I'm just clarifying here, because if you're fully aware of all this I'm not sure why you even brought up Abandonware in the first place.
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spinefarm: My idea was that games like this will be easily lost in time if companies like GOG don't make something about it. To be honest I've never heard about Teenagent before coming to GOG...so yes they help with that for sure.
So these games that are readily available on other sites will be lost in time? How does that work?
Posted March 28, 2012
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SimonG: Not as easy as you think. Depends on country, method of distribution and DRM.
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Longcat: Enlighten me? Since these are games that 99% of the time has been distributed through physical copies, reselling such an item being illegal is news to me?
Ever tried reselling a Steamworks game? You can sell the physical disk, heck, you can even transfer the license of the game. But you cannot transfer your Steam subscription.

A game is not a product but a license usage legally (Actually, the physical parts are products, but that's not what you are selling the game for). Most legal systems have rules in place that make the transfer of a license on a game (or movie/music) with the medium it was on possible. But that is an exception and not the norm when it comes to licenses. This is also why you can't resell digital purchases.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: Well, I have yet to see a game cease to exist because it was not "preserved" by an abandonware site. Just because it isn't up on the net, doesn't mean it's lost to humanity.

I can see how you are thinking you are doing a noble thing "preserving" games for future generations, but to me it seems like a means to justify yourselves. Like I said, it's the term that annoys me, not the fact that abandonware sites exist.
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spinefarm: Ok than we will make a pettition here that you make 100000 copies of Karateka legally for all the fans of the game... Can you do that? Yes it is a noble thing to share with younger gamers the history of gaming. Games are not only MW3 & Skyrim... I have neighbours 14-15 y.o. that don't know what is a floppy disk... and for them gaming starts with Modern Warfare series & shits like that...
Nope, I can't. So what's your point? Doesn't make it any more legal does it?
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: My idea was that games like this will be easily lost in time if companies like GOG don't make something about it. To be honest I've never heard about Teenagent before coming to GOG...so yes they help with that for sure.
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Gremmi: So these games that are readily available on other sites will be lost in time? How does that work?
Where exactly they are available besides Ebay(this don't count 1-2-10 copies) ?

Ok this game is freeware: Hidden & Dangerous But Take-Two can still put a lawsuit if you put it on a site like GOG(Free version that don't make profit) right?
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: No. It is a nonsene term because again and again, it makes people confuse it with freeware and think that it is somehow more legal to distribute such software just because you can't but it anywhere anymore.
People also compare piracy to theft, which honestly has gotten to a point where it makes me violent. The term "Abandonware" actually is very fitting, as I said, more fitting than piracy in the first place. Something "abandoned" on the street is also not free in most cases. But nobody cares if you take it...
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: Ok than we will make a pettition here that you make 100000 copies of Karateka legally for all the fans of the game... Can you do that? Yes it is a noble thing to share with younger gamers the history of gaming. Games are not only MW3 & Skyrim... I have neighbours 14-15 y.o. that don't know what is a floppy disk... and for them gaming starts with Modern Warfare series & shits like that...
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Longcat: Nope, I can't. So what's your point? Doesn't make it any more legal does it?
My point is not to come out with : You can buy it on Ebay/Amazon :) When you can buy unlimited amount of it that's when I will agree that the game is available for people out there... this way is available for ppl with fat walets :)
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: Enlighten me? Since these are games that 99% of the time has been distributed through physical copies, reselling such an item being illegal is news to me?
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SimonG: Ever tried reselling a Steamworks game? You can sell the physical disk, heck, you can even transfer the license of the game. But you cannot transfer your Steam subscription.

A game is not a product but a license usage legally (Actually, the physical parts are products, but that's not what you are selling the game for). Most legal systems have rules in place that make the transfer of a license on a game (or movie/music) with the medium it was on possible. But that is an exception and not the norm when it comes to licenses. This is also why you can't resell digital purchases.
Heh. Ok, thanks for the info. But I think you are getting a bit of track bringing Steamworks into this.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: Lol and 5.25 disc and 3,5 to put it in

Nope, I can't. So what's your point? Doesn't make it any more legal does it?
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spinefarm: My point is not to come out with : You can buy it on Ebay/Amazon :) When you can buy unlimited amount of it that's when I will agree that the game is available for people out there... this way is available for ppl with fat walets :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Abandonia...some questions(139 posts)(139 posts)
(139 posts)