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General discussion (archive)Abandonia...some questions(139 posts)(139 posts)
(139 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 28, 2012
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Gremmi: So these games that are readily available on other sites will be lost in time? How does that work?
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spinefarm: Where exactly they are available besides Ebay(this don't count 1-2-10 copies) ?

Ok this game is freeware: Hidden & Dangerous But Take-Two can still put a lawsuit if you put it on a site like GOG(Free version that don't make profit) right?
I'm sorry, but you started this thread by saying 'I found these games at Abandonia, but I'd prefer them on GOG'. You're obfuscating your argument to the point where Abandonware and Abandonia becomes meaningless and you're literally just saying 'I want game X on GOG'.
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: Where exactly they are available besides Ebay(this don't count 1-2-10 copies) ?

Ok this game is freeware: Hidden & Dangerous But Take-Two can still put a lawsuit if you put it on a site like GOG(Free version that don't make profit) right?
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Gremmi: I'm sorry, but you started this thread by saying 'I found these games at Abandonia, but I'd prefer them on GOG'. You're obfuscating your argument to the point where Abandonware and Abandonia becomes meaningless and you're literally just saying 'I want game X on GOG'.
Yeah I know..but the whole thread went out of hand with ppl throwing hate at sites like that.
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: Heh. Ok, thanks for the info. But I think you are getting a bit of track bringing Steamworks into this.
It was usual to have the "reselling illegal" clause in just about any EULA since the beginning of time. It was never enforced, because a) they couldn't and b) laws were superceding this. But recent developments (nearly) removed the legal clause that was making that EULA part illegal in Germany (some overzealous anti-piracy legislation that was quickly and quietly killed off). Other countries might just go along and do this.

The truth is, reselling and abandonware are, from a publishers perspective essentially the same thing. Distribution of a license by a third party that doens't give them any profit. Especially with games, which are always somewhat of a special case. There are legal opinions that say reselling used games was "tolerated" and not explicitly allowed. Because legislation that allowed reselling had music and books on analog media in mind.

And some countries are just one legal fuckup away from actually making the reselling of used software no longer legal.
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: My point is not to come out with : You can buy it on Ebay/Amazon :) When you can buy unlimited amount of it that's when I will agree that the game is available for people out there... this way is available for ppl with fat walets :)
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hercufles:
I agree, it's sad that these old games are not available to anyone, at any time, at a fair price.

But the world is not fair;)

I won't comment anymore on this, I think I made my point, and as usual it doesn't get through to people who want to justify getting something for free.

No matter how much you twist or turn this, most abandonware titles are software licenses owned by a company or a person. Like I said, I won't comment on the morality of it, because I don't care. But it is illegal. And it is piracy.

Be honest and be safe.

Good night:)
Posted March 28, 2012
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hercufles:
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Longcat: I agree, it's sad that these old games are not available to anyone, at any time, at a fair price.

But the world is not fair;)

I won't comment anymore on this, I think I made my point, and as usual it doesn't get through to people who want to justify getting something for free.

No matter how much you twist or turn this, most abandonware titles are software licenses owned by a company or a person. Like I said, I won't comment on the morality of it, because I don't care. But it is illegal. And it is piracy.

Be honest and be safe.

Good night:)
Mm one thing ... I will gladly buy all "abandonware" games if the publishers start selling them on GOG(or any other digital downloader).
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: No. It is a nonsene term because again and again, it makes people confuse it with freeware and think that it is somehow more legal to distribute such software just because you can't but it anywhere anymore.
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SimonG: People also compare piracy to theft, which honestly has gotten to a point where it makes me violent. The term "Abandonware" actually is very fitting, as I said, more fitting than piracy in the first place. Something "abandoned" on the street is also not free in most cases. But nobody cares if you take it...
Well, there's a difference between putting your own chair out on the street and not caring if anyone picks it up and putting thousands of other peoples chairs out on the street all over the city;) (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
Posted March 28, 2012
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spinefarm: Mm one thing ... I will gladly buy all "abandonware" games if the publishers start selling them on GOG(or any other digital downloader).
In the end, we aren't paying for the games. We are paying GOG to get those licenses straight and bring those games back in the field!
Posted March 28, 2012
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Longcat: I agree, it's sad that these old games are not available to anyone, at any time, at a fair price.

But the world is not fair;)

I won't comment anymore on this, I think I made my point, and as usual it doesn't get through to people who want to justify getting something for free.

No matter how much you twist or turn this, most abandonware titles are software licenses owned by a company or a person. Like I said, I won't comment on the morality of it, because I don't care. But it is illegal. And it is piracy.

Be honest and be safe.

Good night:)
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spinefarm: Mm one thing ... I will gladly buy all "abandonware" games if the publishers start selling them on GOG(or any other digital downloader).
So would I. But like the Rolling Stones put is so eloquently, "You can't always get what you want".

Good night again.
Posted March 28, 2012
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SimonG: People also compare piracy to theft, which honestly has gotten to a point where it makes me violent. The term "Abandonware" actually is very fitting, as I said, more fitting than piracy in the first place. Something "abandoned" on the street is also not free in most cases. But nobody cares if you take it...
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Longcat: Well, there's a difference between putting your own chair out on the street and not caring if anyone picks it up and putting thousands of other peoples chairs out on the street all over the city;) (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
Actually, he is taking my chair of the street and makes thousand copies of it that he puts on different streets.

And the point was, if you find a chair on the street, you are not allowed to take it, even if the owner has abandoned it, you have to report it to the authorities who then decide if you are allowed to keep it (Well, might be different in Norway). The point was, that nobody cares.
Posted March 28, 2012
I would buy those gams in an instant.
Posted March 28, 2012
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kalirion: Abandonware is a coined term, and has no legal definition. One man's "abandonware" is another man's "warez."
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Roman5: It's a term that people use sometimes to justify pirating games

I actually remember on another online place, in a topic of GOG discussion, one person actually said:

"GOG Sells Abandonware, why should I pay for Abandonware?"

The stupidity and ignorance of that statement astounds me to this day
Was that person from RPGCodex?
Posted March 29, 2012
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Longcat: Yes, it is outright piracy. That is why the term abandonware annoys me. It just exists to make people feel better about piracy. If you are going to do something, at least be honest about it. I am. Like I said, I'll be the first to admit I pirate stuff sometimes.

Seems to me the problem here is your own moral compass.
No, I never pirate anything I could legitimately buy. There is a HUGE moral difference there, even if you want to pretend there isn't.
Posted March 29, 2012
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Roman5: It's a term that people use sometimes to justify pirating games

I actually remember on another online place, in a topic of GOG discussion, one person actually said:

"GOG Sells Abandonware, why should I pay for Abandonware?"

The stupidity and ignorance of that statement astounds me to this day
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kalirion: Was that person from RPGCodex?
No, I don't visit RPGcodex, but I have heard that statement from different places
Posted March 29, 2012
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Longcat: Yes, it is outright piracy. That is why the term abandonware annoys me. It just exists to make people feel better about piracy. If you are going to do something, at least be honest about it. I am. Like I said, I'll be the first to admit I pirate stuff sometimes.

Seems to me the problem here is your own moral compass.
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StingingVelvet: No, I never pirate anything I could legitimately buy. There is a HUGE moral difference there, even if you want to pretend there isn't.
Well, at the end of the day, like I stated before, there are very few games that can't be bought secondhand, and MOST games on abandonware sites are relatively easy to get a hold of on sites like Amazon or eBay. So what it really comes down to is that you either can't afford to buy said game at a collectors price or that you find it unreasonably expensive and therefore think you should get the game for free. Using SimonG's, analogy you could buy any modern chair relatively cheaply from IKEA, but you really really want the old antique Victorian chair from the 18th century, which you can't afford.

So, to me, there really is no moral difference. Even if you want to pretend there is.

SimonG: "The point was, that nobody cares."

Then why are there six pages here debating the very question? You don't care, I get that, but I think your statement that nobody else cares is somewhat bold. Try heading over to the ScummVM team and ask them what they think. What they are doing is what I consider "noble" in the way of preserving gaming history.
Post edited March 29, 2012 by Longcat
Posted March 29, 2012
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Longcat: Well, at the end of the day, like I stated before, there are very few games that can't be bought secondhand, and MOST games on abandonware sites are relatively easy to get a hold of on sites like Amazon or eBay.
With either of this options, the developers and publishers don't get anything for their work.

So how can you be so sure that it is morally wrong to download games that cannot be bought firsthand?

Your chair anology doesn't make any sense because software is not a physical object. If you were to steal a chair that you want, they you deprive someone else from that object. Downloading abandonware doesn't deprive anyone of anything.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Abandonia...some questions(139 posts)(139 posts)
(139 posts)