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scampywiak: He clearly wasn't using rape in it's context as an act but as a casual pejorative.
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Psyringe: Yes, and the casual use of a term for sexual violence in a conversation about MMO combat was exactly the point that made some of the women in the chat feel uncomfortable. Which one of them explained to him, which he understood, and which caused him to not use the word in that context again so far.

I'm afraid I don't really see the point in stating the obvious, could you elaborate why you see "used the term as a casual pejorative" as a relevant factor here?

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scampywiak: I personally would be annoyed, as I'm sure 'fuck' and 'damn' annoy others just as much.
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Psyringe: Annoyed by the casual use of "rape" (like the people in the chat), or annoyed by what exactly?
Annoyed by being told how I can swear.
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scampywiak: Annoyed by being told how I can swear.
Yeah, ain't it annoying when a group says "you can't hang out with us if you keep doing that thing that annoys the rest of us".
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scampywiak: Annoyed by being told how I can swear.
Why do you think that anybody tried to tell anyone how he can swear?

The guy said something which made others in the community feel awkward. They explained that to him, and he understood it, and in fact felt genuinely sorry for his thoughtless usage of a term that made others feel bad. Since it was never important for him to use that specific term (as said, he just used it in a thoughtless manner, copied from the statements of others), it was easy for him to stop using it, which he did.

Where exactly has he been "told how he can swear"?

Are you saying that the mere fact that anybody might tell you "I'm not comfortable with what you said because ..." would make you annoyed? That would strike me as rather egocentric. I mean, in that hypothetical scenario, you obviously said something that annoyed others, and expect from them to simply accept that, but at the same time _you'd_ be annoyed if they then address the subject even in a calm and non-offensive manner - do you see the discrepancy in that?
Post edited June 08, 2013 by Psyringe
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Psyringe: Here's a recent example that my girlfriend experienced in an MMO:

- Guy enters a chat, describes that somebody "totally raped him"
- Girl explains to him calmly that she doesn't like the usage of this term and also explains why
- Guy says that he hadn't thought about this before, apologizes, and is a bit more tactful in the future
- Conversation carries on since it's not _that_ big a deal for anyone involved.

These conversations happen very often and it's a very simple thing (imho). Where in this exchange do you see the problems of "subjective criteria" and "gaming under attack"?
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scampywiak: He clearly wasn't using rape in its context as an act but as a casual pejorative. I personally would be annoyed, as I'm sure 'fuck' and 'damn' annoy others just as much.
Yeah but it is all about perspective. Lots of people are offended by profanity and lots of people aren't. But some things go beyond simple offence. Not all words are created equally. I have been working with a guy who is trying to put his life back together after being violently raped. He was too afraid to leave his home after it happened. Two weeks ago he slit his wrist and nearly died. This topic is life and death for some people and I don't think they have the wherewithal for discussions based on context and flexibly of meaning. I can tell you based on the conversations that I have had with sexual assault victims that trash talk invoking the word rape does bother them and I would encourage people to be considerate and consider the effect of their words and the impact they can have.

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Psyringe: - Guy enters a chat, describes that somebody "totally raped him"
- Girl explains to him calmly that she doesn't like the usage of this term and also explains why
- Guy says that he hadn't thought about this before, apologizes, and is a bit more tactful in the future
- Conversation carries on since it's not _that_ big a deal for anyone involved.
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Fenixp: Yeah. That's reasonable - Zookie can pretty much count on me not using the word rape around him. I won't stop using it generally tho (not that I actually am using it in this context)
Thanks
Post edited June 08, 2013 by Zookie
Maybe one day all online play will be moderated and no one can say something that is potentially offensive. I'm done here.
Post edited June 08, 2013 by scampywiak
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scampywiak: Maybe one day all online play will be moderated and no one can say something that is potentially offensive. I'm done here.
If you've read the thread, then you know that no one here is asking for that.

I'm still open to any explanation why saying "got totally raped" is a _good_ idea. So far, you haven't provided a single argument for that. You're mainly stating that you don't want to adapt your behavior to the needs or sensibilities of others, and would get annoyed when being asked to. I'm not criticizing that per se, but if that's your _only_ reason for keeping to use a term that obviously makes others feel bad, then that's a bit weak imho.
So, question, why is rape worse than murder in that respect ?
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scampywiak: Maybe one day all online play will be moderated and no one can say something that is potentially offensive. I'm done here.
That is not at all what I am advocating. But if the worst thing that happens in your life is getting scolded by a moderator in an online gaming session I think you were pretty fortunate.
Post edited June 08, 2013 by Zookie
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Telika: So, question, why is rape worse than murder in that respect ?
In my experience, the reason is that ...

a) rape (in all its forms) affects a much higher number of people, so you're more likely to encounter people who will feel bad when you talk about it in a casual manner

b) Murder or at least deathly violence _is_ a common aspect of gaming, while rape most certainly is not. As a result, coming from a battle in an MMO and saying "I totally killed that guy" is an appropriate description of the event, while saying "I totally raped that guy" introduces a connotation of sexual violence that has nothing to do with the actual event.

Objectively (if we assume that these things can be rated objectively, which I doubt, since they are determined by culture) rape might not be worse than murder, but in my experience, trivializing rape in casual conversation clearly makes more people feel awkward than trivializing murder.