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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 31, 2014
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DMTrev: Well, not quite millions: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree[/url])
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jamotide: Yes and if you had read your own link, you would have noticed it describes the ones up to a million years as well.
Well, herpaderp. Looks like I failed at reading.
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jamotide: From what I understand about scientific theories, you can only proof them wrong. The origin of species is not a theory, it was just the name of Darwins book which describes his theory of evolution.
Theories, in science, are also things that are different than we think in layman's English. Gravitation remains a "theory". But I'm pretty sure that even the most anti-evolution sort wouldn't claim that gravity isn't real and that rather we are all held onto the surface of the planet by the loving embrace of an omnipresent deity.

...no one says that, right? I'm not gonna go Googling for that.
Post edited January 31, 2014 by DMTrev
Posted January 31, 2014
Come on guys, google this stuff yourselves. Lets hear more from our religious friends, that is more fun.
Posted January 31, 2014
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jamotide: Come on guys, google this stuff yourselves. Lets hear more from our religious friends, that is more fun.
There's actually a good amount of discussion on the subject by people smarter than us, but the amount of voices for Evolution being a theory and only a theory is rapidly going down. For a good reason, since most arguments for Evolution being a theory and only a theory really stretch the word 'Theory' into useless proportions. But yeah, let's leave the discussion to people who have dedicated their lives to study the subject.
Posted January 31, 2014
Look, all I was trying to do by calling it a theory was put it next to general relativity and other scientific theories that are almost universally accepted as fact, so that our religious dudes see what their popular "just a theory" argument really means. Thanks for ruining it!
Posted January 31, 2014
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jamotide: Thanks for ruining it!
There's nothing to ruin you know, people believed world is a disc in the middle of the universe for a considerable amount of time in spite of being faced with the facts, it's not like anything of the 'it's scientific theory!' sort would sway any single person who chooses to blindly believe something else.

People believed they've been given dominion over a disc standing in the middle of the universe, with everything else revolving around us. Bloody hell, I've never realized just how incredibly arrogant humanity is
Posted January 31, 2014
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flashpulse: You know why scientist can't carbon date properly or judge the earth by how far below they find something? The great flood in Noah's days turned up the dirt of the earth quite a bit and hot springs that flowed from below the earth altered it too. It didn't just rain, water below the earth shot up like volcano's.
It's not the scientists that cannot carbon date properly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APEpwkXatbY
Posted January 31, 2014
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jamotide: Thanks for ruining it!
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Fenixp: There's nothing to ruin you know, people believed world is a disc in the middle of the universe for a considerable amount of time in spite of being faced with the facts, it's not like anything of the 'it's scientific theory!' sort would sway any single person who chooses to blindly believe something else.

People believed they've been given dominion over a disc standing in the middle of the universe, with everything else revolving around us. Bloody hell, I've never realized just how incredibly arrogant humanity is
I think it's more that those arguing against evolution use 'it's only a theory' to imply that it's just some sort of back-of-an-envelope doodle, wild conjecture that is untested, unverified and really rather flimsy - when in fact it is anything of the sort. The correct term for what they *think* theory means is hypothesis.
Posted January 31, 2014
There is no such thing as an absolute fact, understand this. Facts do have a tendency to evolve. However the rule of the thumb is not to derive facts based on pre-conceptions but on the basis of evidence and objective reasoning. Facts must be tenable.

That is the essence of scientific conjecture. There is sufficient evidence for evolution,these have been corroborated.

@on topic: I find it highly amusing when religious people, when they lack evidence resort to red herrings and ad hominem attacks. It only makes them lose credibility.

Still
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jamotide: Thanks for ruining it!
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Fenixp: There's nothing to ruin you know, people believed world is a disc in the middle of the universe for a considerable amount of time in spite of being faced with the facts, it's not like anything of the 'it's scientific theory!' sort would sway any single person who chooses to blindly believe something else.

People believed they've been given dominion over a disc standing in the middle of the universe, with everything else revolving around us. Bloody hell, I've never realized just how incredibly arrogant humanity is
Post edited January 31, 2014 by Lionel212008
Posted January 31, 2014
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Fenixp: People believed they've been given dominion over a disc standing in the middle of the universe, with everything else revolving around us. Bloody hell, I've never realized just how incredibly arrogant humanity is
The whole idea that this incomprehensibly vast place of existence was created for the sole benefit of a bunch of monkeys living on less than a speck of dust always struck me as such.

I also get annoyed when that arrogance is extended into the study of life, as in, life out there requires the same conditions to exist as life down here.

To be sure, it's a good lead to go on but the discussion talks like it's the only way life could form.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is some fucked up living thing out there which completely defies our understanding of biology. Then again, I guess it does no good to search for speculative forms of life...

Also, taken as a whole, fiction has an incredibly unrealistic portrayal of our capabilities against any given alien threat. Come on guys, humans aren't that special.
Posted January 31, 2014
I concur. Human beings carry a finite number of senses (21 as it is known) and there is much that escapes our attention. Who knows what exists in the spaces in-between? Perhaps these aliens are all around us and we can't seem to perceive them. In a way, it is a small mercy.If we were to see everything that reality conceived then we would all be driven insane, I think.

Life may not always be delightful too behold and perhaps we would be made aware of our own innate grotesqueness then.

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Fenixp: People believed they've been given dominion over a disc standing in the middle of the universe, with everything else revolving around us. Bloody hell, I've never realized just how incredibly arrogant humanity is
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Shaolin_sKunk: The whole idea that this incomprehensibly vast place of existence was created for the sole benefit of a bunch of monkeys living on less than a speck of dust always struck me as such.

I also get annoyed when that arrogance is extended into the study of life, as in, life out there requires the same conditions to exist as life down here.

To be sure, it's a good lead to go on but the discussion talks like it's the only way life could form.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is some fucked up living thing out there which completely defies our understanding of biology. Then again, I guess it does no good to search for speculative forms of life...

Also, taken as a whole, fiction has an incredibly unrealistic portrayal of our capabilities against any given alien threat. Come on guys, humans aren't that special.
Post edited January 31, 2014 by Lionel212008
Posted January 31, 2014
How about some nice soothing music for everybody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JAm4-fvI5U
Posted January 31, 2014
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Fenixp: It's pretty stupid actually, if God's a programmer, he's rubbish at his job and should be fired :-P Large part of DNA is redundant and unused, we're FILLED with bugs including:
- choking on puke
- cancer
- auto-immune reactions
... and plenty more, have you seen the article about redundant nerves in Giraffe neck that has been linked to you? ... Yeah, not to mention that evolution itself has actually been observed to occur. It baffles me how could somebody insult what he believes to be a perfect being by stating that he has created life himself. Life is way too random and badly designed for that. Do your god a favour and start trusting evolution :-P
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CarrionCrow: Your comments definitely link back to the whole "made in their image" bit. If we're all made in a god's image? With all our collective mental problems, physical problems, inevitable deterioration and decay? Kinda makes for one freaky entity behind the big cosmic wheel if that's the case. Just some tragic figure riddled with madness and rot, self-destructive as all hell and wanting it to all end.
Well, Christian theology does contain something called the Fall, is a corruption of everything from how God originally made it.
Posted January 31, 2014
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CarrionCrow: Your comments definitely link back to the whole "made in their image" bit. If we're all made in a god's image? With all our collective mental problems, physical problems, inevitable deterioration and decay? Kinda makes for one freaky entity behind the big cosmic wheel if that's the case. Just some tragic figure riddled with madness and rot, self-destructive as all hell and wanting it to all end.
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Soyeong: Well, Christian theology does contain something called the Fall, is a corruption of everything from how God originally made it.
Which "god" purposely set up for humans to fail, then punished them.
Posted January 31, 2014
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Fenixp: It's pretty stupid actually, if God's a programmer, he's rubbish at his job and should be fired :-P Large part of DNA is redundant and unused, we're FILLED with bugs including:
- choking on puke
- cancer
- auto-immune reactions
... and plenty more, have you seen the article about redundant nerves in Giraffe neck that has been linked to you? ... Yeah, not to mention that evolution itself has actually been observed to occur. It baffles me how could somebody insult what he believes to be a perfect being by stating that he has created life himself. Life is way too random and badly designed for that. Do your god a favour and start trusting evolution :-P
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CarrionCrow: Your comments definitely link back to the whole "made in their image" bit. If we're all made in a god's image? With all our collective mental problems, physical problems, inevitable deterioration and decay? Kinda makes for one freaky entity behind the big cosmic wheel if that's the case. Just some tragic figure riddled with madness and rot, self-destructive as all hell and wanting it to all end.
You guys speak with no knowledge. Everything changed when Adam and eve sinned and were banished from the garden. Seriously people, go study before you open your mouths.
Posted January 31, 2014
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CarrionCrow: Your comments definitely link back to the whole "made in their image" bit. If we're all made in a god's image? With all our collective mental problems, physical problems, inevitable deterioration and decay? Kinda makes for one freaky entity behind the big cosmic wheel if that's the case. Just some tragic figure riddled with madness and rot, self-destructive as all hell and wanting it to all end.
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flashpulse: You guys speak with no knowledge. Everything changed when Adam and eve sinned and were banished from the garden. Seriously people, go study before you open your mouths.
Were pushed into sin because if "god" is all knowing and powerful he should have known what would happen, yet still put a tree there to begin with. So god is an asshole for punishing people he pushed into sinning.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)