I'll check back on this tomorrow, giving monkey plenty of time to make his case comparing Catholic Cannons to scripture itself. (I'm betting he's too post-modern to know how to do it.)

I remember a verse, but I'd have to search to words to find the address. It's the definition of a fool.

"The fool says, in his heart, 'There is no God.' "

We've dealt with some of those claims tonight. For the proud, keep the Law cranked up until they sqeak for mercy. Then, when they squeak and only then, when the Law has humbled them, do not hesitate to bring the bring the Gospel.

And as christopher hitchens says, claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

This guy here brings some good points, what you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmfVQia-Hr8

THat's presumptuous of you. My "current form" is Apostolic, as in 1st century. (No, not the recent fad of "Vintage" nor the heretical "latter rain" or "New Apastolic" junk.) You haven't supplied enough evidence to make the case because they MISUSE the Bible. It's called hermeneutics. Not only is your statement not enough evidence to make the case, you didn't match the Cannons the thing that came long before the Cannons, the Bible itself.

Fail. BUT, please try again. Ok, they both use the Bible, but the RCC misuses it, and....what else...?




I suggest you look up fightingforthefaith.com and search for "how to interpret the Bible." It's a good set of 4 lectures (you have to hunt for parts 3 & 4) on interpretation. He explains different methods. One is like how you'd read these posts. The Catholic hermeneutic that was not created by, but was formalized by Thomas Acquainas really downplayed this method in favor of scraping your imagination for "spiritual" methods. Anyone want links?

What position are you in that gives you the authority which factions use and misuse it?

I tire of you, you should probably lay off the steroids.

These are good issues, but I'd be really careful with Hovind. I've seen his stuff before. Sometimes his science skips a beat. Didn't have time to watch the vid you linked, but that's my two-pence! :)

I don't need authority, just literacy. Ah, and you've played another game--several at once actually. You're changing the subject from demonstrating that Catholicism is Christian as defined by the Bible TO an ad hominem diversion in avoiding a question by answering it with a question! WOW!!

Tell you what--I asked you first. You answer, with evidence and explanation, as asked, matching scripture to Cannon, that the Catholic is Christian as defined by the Bible, and then I'll answer your question about authority, factions, and misuses (and literacy).

Ok, next round has started. GO FOR IT!



ok, now I'm really signing off. G'night. I appreciate anyone actually read my huge posts. I'm honored by your time.

I'll check back to see if Monkey did really answer.. If he doesn't answer keep on him. :P

Yeah, basically what he says in this vid is "factualize" the bible. What got me thinking is could we really be deceived with all this "billions of years old" earth we've been told all the time, couse when you think about it, most of the stuff regarded as "oldest" does not predate more than ~4500-5000 years and in the vid he made some good examples of it... interesting stuff.

There is corruption in all religions without a doubt. We are a weak people and can be easily swayed to sin. You have study yourself and figure out what is false and what's true. Just read the four gospels. If it goes against what Yeshua taught, then it's wrong.

I don't have a issue with Catholics so to speak. There are good Yeshua believing people in both Catholic and Christianity. My issue is with the Catholic church and Popes. While they come off as believers or good teachers, they do things and have changed things that Yeshua didn't teach. This can make the ignorant sin without knowing because they believed their Priest was teaching them the proper scripture. This changed a lot when various people started translating the Bible into english so that everyone could read and understand it. The Catholic church didn't like this and killed many believers for their own benefit. Which was and is for power and greed.

Now if you don't believe in GOD, that is your mistake. But I must say, you will soon. The generation who saw Israel become a nation, shall not pass. An anti-Christ will rise and claim to be above all that is GOD. He will even do miracles and deceive many. The real Christ or GOD in the flesh will come from the heavens with all the saints. When His feet hit the Mount of Olives, it will create a huge earthquake and crack the land. He will then walk through the eastern wall and into the 3rd temple, which isn't built yet.
You know why scientist can't carbon date properly or judge the earth by how far below they find something? The great flood in Noah's days turned up the dirt of the earth quite a bit and hot springs that flowed from below the earth altered it too. It didn't just rain, water below the earth shot up like volcano's.

I suppose, but given that no authoritative copy of the Bible exists, I'm curious how simple literacy solves any of that.

Religion really is a cult complete with submission and mental slavery.

No "omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent" supernatural being would ever care what you look like, what you say or do etc nor would it require constant praise. That would be totally irrelevant to such a being. That is just humans trying to identify, herd and control people.

You only have one life so make the most of it. Don't listen to the snake oil salesmen selling you more in exchange for control over you. You have to love yourself, other people, animals and the environment which exist on planet Earth.

Thanks for sharing. I like watching people like this tear a whole in evolution. He's pretty funny too.

It's pretty stupid actually, if God's a programmer, he's rubbish at his job and should be fired :-P Complexity is not intelligent design, and in design of most life on earth, there are so many problems, dead ends and redundancy that it's most assuredly not design created by an intelligent, deductive being. Large part of DNA is redundant and unused, we're FILLED with bugs including:
- choking on puke
- cancer
- auto-immune reactions
... and plenty more, have you seen the article about redundant nerves in Giraffe neck that has been linked to you? ... Yeah, not to mention that evolution itself has actually been observed to occur. It baffles me how could somebody insult what he believes to be a perfect being by stating that he has created life himself. Life is way too random and badly designed for that. Do your god a favour and start trusting evolution :-P

Your comments definitely link back to the whole "made in their image" bit. If we're all made in a god's image? With all our collective mental problems, physical problems, inevitable deterioration and decay? Kinda makes for one freaky entity behind the big cosmic wheel if that's the case. Just some tragic figure riddled with madness and rot, self-destructive as all hell and wanting it to all end.

Wow it's so incredible how beyond hope you are if you think that is good.

Let me post the video description: I don't even know how to respond to that.


I will leave you this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

That's the guy in the lecture.