If they provide food and shelter and steady work, it not that different form wage slaves today.

And also beat them properly?

I'm going to have to agree with you a second time. Flashpulse, I'm no Catholic, but you take your anti-Catholicism way too far.

A slave could be beaten if they were being disciplined, but the same goes for a free person. If any injury was cause to the slave, then they would be set free.

And when did you witness this?

Don't worry flashpulse, he pulled the same garbage with me as far as saying he wouldn't look at anything I posted.

Monkey, the Bible doesn't contain the word "Trinity," but the concept is everywhere in it. Likewise, if Revelation is talking about the Roman Catholic church, and I'm not sold 100% on that but I'm not ruling it out either yet, then it's along the same lines. One would have to take what is in scripture, the whole of scripture (a.k.a. whole counsel of God), and match it up to what we see happening in the world. In other words, you have to think and not everything spoon-fed like a baby. For you, I'd say stick to the basics first, the things that are so plain that they are spoon-feeding you.

With all of the unbiblical mysticism that guided the Catholic church for years, and that same mysticism in the Emergent Church movement, thanks to heretics like Dallas Willard and Richard Foster, and to heretic Marxists like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren, is moving toward Roman Catholicism with all of it's works-sanctification heresies (counter to Col 2 and Gal 3). Then add in the Fascist movement of the Emergent churches and the Purpose Driven franchises. Those are aiming us for unbiblical unity with anyone and everything, just a the RC church tires to do. (Rick Warren refused to proclaim Christ publicly because it might turn people away--total fear of man--based on his being mentored by admitted non-christian Fascist Peter Drucker, and I mean classical, collectivist Fascism.) So, watching the times, it wouldn't surprise me if the RC church is in the book of Revelation, but I don't see it as a necessary interpretation. Also, it is legitimate to hold that in an open hand because it's watching a fore-telling prophecy.

Now, go to Mark 13 and Matthew 24. Jesus is telling them not to be led astray and HOW not to be led stray. He's admonishing them to pay attention and keep to the faith ("stay awake"). Later in each chapter, Jesus says "when you see these things [the false christs and people being deceived] you know that [the Son of Man, Jesus returning] is near." So what people are doing is paying attention, as we were told to do, and matching it up with what they see going on around them. Now, some freak out and can't read a newspaper properly anymore without inserting all kinds of weirdness from their imaginations. However, the things to watch for are quite simple. So this is what people do, a details study of what's in the Bible and match it to the world; they keep watch as instructed. Some have matched portions of Revelation to the RC church. You, however, refuse to learn anything from anyone if it means you have to read or watch/listen where you can't argue with the speaker. Your pride is astounding--the sin of idolatry. Your idol happens to be yourself. It's clear in your behavior.


Also, The RC Church is not Christian. They anathematized the Gospel itself way back in Luther's time or shortly afterward. Without adherence to the Gospel, the church is not Christian. It's a "false" church. In other words, if someone is similar to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 and Galatians 3, then the RC Church declared those who agree with Paul's statements to be anathema. Here's what Paul said there in his letter to the Corinthians in combination with his letter to the Galatians. It's the Gospel itself:

1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"—
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


You need to know that you try to justify yourself by your own argumentation, stepping on others with the intellectually and academic dishonesty of not looking up what they'd say. You said that FlashPulse was wasting your time by not educating herself. The Bible explained that even those who lacked the law became a law unto themselves (that is, that they instinctively were created with a moral sense and try to replace God with whatever they come up with). However, you are the one guilty of not going and educating yourself when we've pointed you to other resources outside the forum. You HYPOCRITE, breaking even your own law! As a heart issue, your treatment of others is moving toward hatred, disdain, a snobbery growing, toward others. Unchecked, it would become hatred, which is murder as far as the heart is concerned, as explained by Jesus. Yes, you harbor and the seeds of murder. In terms of what Jesus summarized (because he was asked) as the greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. You have broken this Law as you put yourself above all others, and are thus, as the Bible says, guilty of the whole law. God is just to wrathfully condemn you. You need a savior. This law alone should show you that need. Do you see that need?


On methodology: By the way, to others reading, when you're dealing with someone who is really proud, too proud to see his own sinfulness, what you do is just as Jesus did--crank up the law and especially, if you can, point out the idolatry and hypocrisy. So, if you see a little fire/brimstone stuff up there, that's what's going on. You keep it cranked up until they squeak for mercy, then deliver the Gospel to them (and not merely as a piece of evidence regarding what the Catholic Church anathematized). That's what I'm doing.

Yes how dare I ask someone to back up their claims.

It's not problem to ask them to back up their claims. She did (supposedly, giving benefit of the doubt that what she pointed you to does back up the claim).

You're playing a shell game to avoid the point. You wanted her to back up her claim. I explained to you how it works, that you have to examine the evidence and think. You play the shell game of (pouty wimpering) "I only asked her to back up her claim," but when she pointed you to a link that explains it, maybe better than she can explain it, you throw that out without reason and then act like she didn't give you ANYTHING to back up her claim.

How about you just get off your lazy ass and actually look as something, anything, that people have pointed you toward. Here's another one:

Roman Catholicism is not Christian:
http://www.the-highway.com/Horton_cath.html

---------------------------------

Here are the Catholic statements. Compare them to Paul in Galatians 3 from the earlier post:

Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone (supra, chapters 7-8), meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost (Rom. 5:5), and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.

Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy (supra, chapter 9), which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.

Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works (ibid., chapter 10), but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.



And compare them to this passage:
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Exactly. An apple is not an orange even though they are both fruits. They have different names for a reason. That's what I was trying to explain earlier.

Sorry, catholicism is a form of christianity, no matter who likes it. To deny that is to deny facts, but then again I come to expect that from the religious.

Thanks for trying. He doesn't want to know, so I'm cranking up the Law whenever I write for him that it might also affect him others who might read. ...if the read it. I guess I love the guy because I'm telling him truth. Tough love, huh?

I think I disagree with the video you posted, but it's prophecy we're watching, so we can hold it in an "open hand." I started in on the vid and recognized the things it was saying. I've heard other things that point to Jerusalem for some of these evidences. It's a good thing that our faith is not in nailing down this prophecy, but in Jesus' shed blood for the forgiveness of our sins, faith in a father who can be trusted because His word is true. Cathlic-church-but-not-at-Rome in the end would not surprise me. You may wanna look up Chris White's videos. He put out a book, pretty cheap on Amazon, called Mystery Babylon. It's closely related subject matter. :)

It's been a long time since I've looked at Revelation stuff and Catholicism (I was raised Catholic). So, I'm not announcing that you're wrong. I gotta go back to work. Too bad I got distracted here. That last game they posted actually looks like fun. G'Night.

Why would that matter?

Can't just go think of a nice scenario or let others do it for you and decide that's what happened.

Considering they use the bible too, and came long before your current form.