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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 30, 2014
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Cormoran: Except that we don't have dominion over the Earth. There's animals larger than us, stronger than us, faster than us, more numerous than us and more prosperous than us, the only thing that we stand out on is our brains.
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Soyeong: (www.dictionary.com)
do·min·ion [duh-min-yuhn]
noun
1. the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority.
2. rule; control; domination.
3. a territory, usually of considerable size, in which a single rulership holds sway.
4. lands or domains subject to sovereignty or control.
5. Government . a territory constituting a self-governing commonwealth and being one of a number of such territories united in a community of nations, or empire: formerly applied to self-governing divisions of the British Empire, as Canada and New Zealand.

Dominion does not refer to being supreme beings or to being the largest, strongest, fastest, or more numerous. It refers to being given authority over the Earth.
But we have no actual authority over the Earth either. That's an entirely Human concept, go for a walk in the outback and see just how far your dominion gets you there. Some of us like to think we do, that's where arrogance comes in. Whether you got the idea from yourself, or if you believe some invisible sky wizard gave it to you is irrelevant.
Posted January 30, 2014
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Lionel212008: 'Confirmation Bias'.

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flashpulse: Ok, so not only was all the old prophecies in the Bible come true, but an old prophecy has come to pass that you can see. Look at Israel, the Jews have gone back home. The one and only time something like this has ever happened in history. What are the odds of even just that one?
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Lionel212008:
I posted a fact that everyone can see and all you can write is "Confirmation Bias"? You have no grounds for debate. I don't think you have study much (Bible or otherwise) or you would have more to say then an unintelligent one liner. Sorry to sound a bit rude but it's true.
Posted January 30, 2014
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jamotide: What? I believe you misunderstood the concept of jamotide. It is a team of gods that created everything. It is not contigent on me, I simply named myself in their honor. Your god was created by them as well. But you say that makes your god not a god, I find that admission amazing.
It

It's illogical to claim a non-contingent being is contingent on something.

"Something whose essence is its existence would depend on nothing else for its existence, since it would just be existence or being. But there can only possibly be one such being, for there would be no way in principle to distinguish more than one. We could not coherently appeal to some unique form one such thing has to distinguish it from others of its kind, because then it would not be simply an act of existing, but an act of existing plus this certain form; nor could we associate it with some particular parcel of matter, because then it would not be subsistent existence, but material existence, that is dependent of matter for its being." - Edward Feser
Posted January 30, 2014
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Soyeong: Saying there is no proof of something is not the same a saying there is no evidence for it, or there is no reason to believe it. For instance, you can't prove that Caesar crossed the Rubicon, yet there is good historical evidence that gives us reason to believe that it happened. If a friend asks to borrow money, you can't prove that he will pay you back, but you can still have reason based on the evidence of you past experience with him to believe that he will pay you back.

It is in fact humanly impossible to form the belief that something is true without any evidence indicating that to be the case. If there was nothing indicating something to be true, then no one would form the belief that it was in the first place, so every belief, religious or not, has reason to believe it. Whether it is good reason is a different story.

Speaking as a Christian, I happen to think there are good reasons to believe it is true, otherwise I wouldn't still be a Christian. There are also a number of proofs out there for the existence of God, such as Aquinas's Five Ways. It's fine if you think my reasons are poor or the proofs are flawed, but to say there is no reason to believe it is incorrect.
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pimpmonkey2382: Religion doesn't even have that going for it. It's an invisible product that you can't prove, or have evidence for until you die. Therefore for me it is illogical to believe it. And I won't believe after thousands of years, in the last 2 thousand that some god decided it's time to get involved.
I've made the claim that it is impossible to form the belief that something is true without any evidence indicating that to be the case, so perhaps you could explain how it is possible to for someone to form a belief without anything indicating to them that it is true. Regardless of what you think of the Bible, it has been used as evidence that Christianity is true by billions of people, so to say there is no evidence is completely absurd.
Post edited January 30, 2014 by Soyeong
Posted January 30, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Religion doesn't even have that going for it. It's an invisible product that you can't prove, or have evidence for until you die. Therefore for me it is illogical to believe it. And I won't believe after thousands of years, in the last 2 thousand that some god decided it's time to get involved.
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Soyeong: I've made the claim that it is impossible to form the belief that something is true without any evidence indicating that to be the case, so perhaps you could explain how it is possible to for someone to form a belief without anything indicating to them that it is true. Regardless of what you think of the Bible, it has been used as evidence that Christianity is true by billions of people, so to say there is no evidence is completely absurd.
If that were evidence, then my typing here is evidence that I in fact have an alien living in my apartment.
Posted January 30, 2014
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Soyeong:
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pimpmonkey2382: then my typing here is evidence that I in fact have an alien living in my apartment.
Son of a bitch! I knew this was you!
Attachments:
pimpmonkey.jpg (34 Kb)
Posted January 30, 2014
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Soyeong: Regardless of what you think of the Bible, it has been used as evidence that Christianity is true by billions of people, so to say there is no evidence is completely absurd.
Vikings thought it was bullshit, before christians forced them to conversion or kill them. Your point is that dead guys must have been wrong ?


Edit : my point is, you can believe in something (god, power rangers, and all) but you have to prove that something is/was real. I have no issues with people living their faith, I just can't bear people thinking they can (dis)prove something with some words and an old propaganda book.
Post edited January 30, 2014 by Potzato
Posted January 30, 2014
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Cormoran: But we have no actual authority over the Earth either. That's an entirely Human concept, go for a walk in the outback and see just how far your dominion gets you there. Some of us like to think we do, that's where arrogance comes in. Whether you got the idea from yourself, or if you believe some invisible sky wizard gave it to you is irrelevant.
I think our rationality and morality sets us above other animals, with the possible exception of people owned by cats.
Posted January 30, 2014
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Cormoran: But we have no actual authority over the Earth either. That's an entirely Human concept, go for a walk in the outback and see just how far your dominion gets you there. Some of us like to think we do, that's where arrogance comes in. Whether you got the idea from yourself, or if you believe some invisible sky wizard gave it to you is irrelevant.
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Soyeong: I think our rationality and morality sets us above other animals, with the possible exception of people owned by cats.
Hey, I'm owned by a cat.
Posted January 30, 2014
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Soyeong: I've made the claim that it is impossible to form the belief that something is true without any evidence indicating that to be the case, so perhaps you could explain how it is possible to for someone to form a belief without anything indicating to them that it is true. Regardless of what you think of the Bible, it has been used as evidence that Christianity is true by billions of people, so to say there is no evidence is completely absurd.
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pimpmonkey2382: If that were evidence, then my typing here is evidence that I in fact have an alien living in my apartment.
Evidence at its base level is what indicates to us that something is true. If you were claiming that there is an alien living in your apartment, then that would indicate it was true, and someone who thought you were a trustworthy authority on the matter could use it as evidence to rationally form the belief that it was true. However, the fact that the existence of is beyond most people's experience is evidence that your claim is highly unlikely to be true, so most people consider that to be the stronger evidence and doubt your claim until you provide us with some strong supporting evidence.
Posted January 30, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: If that were evidence, then my typing here is evidence that I in fact have an alien living in my apartment.
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Soyeong: Evidence at its base level is what indicates to us that something is true. If you were claiming that there is an alien living in your apartment, then that would indicate it was true, and someone who thought you were a trustworthy authority on the matter could use it as evidence to rationally form the belief that it was true. However, the fact that the existence of is beyond most people's experience is evidence that your claim is highly unlikely to be true, so most people consider that to be the stronger evidence and doubt your claim until you provide us with some strong supporting evidence.
So basically you're saying evidence is somehow just your opinion to believe something to be true rather than facts?
Posted January 30, 2014
BTW the aforementioned animal vs human morality debate doesn't really hold water. I can only think of one other species on Earth besides humans that regularly practices slavery and I can't think of one besides humans that regularly practices genocide so I find it a little twisted to say humans have a moral leg up.
Posted January 30, 2014
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tinyE: BTW the aforementioned animal vs human morality debate doesn't really hold water. I can only think of one other species on Earth besides humans that regularly practices slavery and I can't think of one besides humans that regularly practices genocide so I find it a little twisted to say humans have a moral leg up.
Agreed.
Posted January 30, 2014
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tinyE: BTW the aforementioned animal vs human morality debate doesn't really hold water. I can only think of one other species on Earth besides humans that regularly practices slavery and I can't think of one besides humans that regularly practices genocide so I find it a little twisted to say humans have a moral leg up.
Have you ... Have you made a serious post?
*Fenixp pokes tinyE with a stick*
Are you ok? Is it infectious?
Posted January 30, 2014
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tinyE: BTW the aforementioned animal vs human morality debate doesn't really hold water. I can only think of one other species on Earth besides humans that regularly practices slavery and I can't think of one besides humans that regularly practices genocide so I find it a little twisted to say humans have a moral leg up.
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Fenixp: Have you ... Have you made a serious post?
*Fenixp pokes tinyE with a stick*
Are you ok? Is it infectious?
He has the flu. :P
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)