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iippo: I will take a potshot at you were born into christian family and country where christianity was the "main beef" so to speak?

I mean if i had born in muslim country, i would most likely be muslim. Had i born in Israel i would be jew. Had i born India i would be hindi. ...and so it goes.

On average people tend to keep and value the beliefs and, well values of their childhood also later in their life. Ofcourse there are always converts and those who lose their faith (if they had one) - but i dare to say that on average most stick to what they were born with.

Anyways - i was not asked where i wanted to be born, not certain if someone else choice in the matter.
Trying to say what religion we would be if we were born in a different country is speculation, so I don't think anything meaningful can come from that. Being born into a certain religion certainly does cause bias in that direction, but I think there is a time in ever person's life when their parents are no longer taking them to church every week and they need to decide for themselves which religion to follow, if any. Especially with access the Internet, children are having a much greater exposure to different ideas. Ultimately what we believe is what we think has the strongest evidence.
Existence of God - well that is ofcourse hard one. Instead of arguing about God's existence, i have some seriously trouble understanding what kind of person/entity/force/?? "God" would actually be in the first place. I mean for something to be able to create "everything" has pretty much lovecraftian implications of being way-way over human understanding and comprehension.

-> In this sense i actually see some great wisdom in (for example) muslim ban on depicting God.
God is self-existent and everything else exists contingently, so God is not composed of matter and doesn't look like anything we can perceive with our eyes. God is an eternal, omniscience, omnipotent, all loving, all good, and personal being. God is beyond human understanding, but there are certain aspects that we can understand.
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flashpulse: Well, that's how wars start, there's a division somewhere. It's just too bad people can't help one another instead of trying to conquer everything for their own desires.
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jamotide: No no, wars start because of greed. Division is required to control and occupy. That is like the story your minister Martin Luther King told about the slaves in egypt. The Pharaohs used to have them fight amongst each other, but when they got together they lost control.
To quote Von Clausewitz, "war is politics by other means".
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iippo: Existence of God - well that is of course hard one.
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flashpulse: Actually it's not. Two very complexed human beings were created at the same exact time and have a invisible connection, a mans seed and a woman's egg, in order to create children. On top of that, there was fruit and vegetables that have the very vitamins and minerals we need in order for us to survive. There also happen to be air and water on this very planet that these two people were created on. These all had to happen in a small time frame. One small error and nothing would exist. As you can see, the list will just keep going and going.

This is a very intelligent design. I have study this for 20 years and any evolutionist who tries to state other wise is either blind or will just flat out not except there is a GOD because they have superior issues.

If evolution was true, the venomous snake would have died of its own venom when "evolving". The giraffe would have suffered a heart attack as the giraffes heart changes when it dips its head to drink water. Again, this can keep going on too.

Yes, I'm a Christian, so I'll leave you with a quote. "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." - Psalm 14
Can you tell is the reason that there is no life on the moon because God decided not to do it or because the living environment was not suitable for life in the first place?

Anyways, i have never-ever comprehended how evolution and God/religion are somehow supposed to be polar opposites? I rather feel that certain people want to feel that the God made them special "just so" instead of for example claim that evolution is totally valid tool for God.

Certainly i can see the attraction of magic "Bim - and there life", but for now i steal lean towards evolution theory whether there is God or not :)

If you want to refer to Bible concerning evolution, it would have been rather funny if the holiest of books was actually a detailed biology book. However, i doubt the world would have been exactly ready for that sort of science "back then"...

Suppose its only fair ill leave a quote for you as well:

"A fool believes every that is written." - Me, right now. (hint: does also apply to this thread)
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jamotide: So how does that make what I said wrong, especially "in both directions"? So are you saying it is rational, but not intelligent to believe in something somebody made up? How is it relevant what those gods attributes are? I did not say anything about false or true at all.
And I did not assume anyone is irrational because they have a different opinion, I assume they are irrational because they are irrational. They could have my opinion (see below) and still be irrational.

btw...did you know "jamotide" is the name of a large team of gods that created everything, even your god? If you don't believe that,you are an atheist.
One of the necessary attributes of God is that He is not contingent on anything, so if you're imagining a god that is made out of spaghetti, then it is contingent on matter for its existence, and the same argument does not work.
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scampywiak: Jesus was an idiot. That turn the other cheek shit does not work. As for the rest of your post, you're in a comfortable fantasy land. Try your thinking in Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt. See how it works.
I'm not sure what you mean by it not working. Jesus was telling his disciples not to participate in honor/shame challenges.
Post edited January 30, 2014 by Soyeong
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Soyeong: One of the necessary attributes of God is that He is not contingent on anything
Very convenient, but still how is that relevant to my post. I can make up gods that fit this criteria.
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Soyeong: God is self-existent and everything else exists contingently, so God is not composed of matter and doesn't look like anything we can perceive with our eyes. God is an eternal, omniscience, omnipotent, all loving, all good, and personal being. God is beyond human understanding, but there are certain aspects that we can understand.
If God exists beyond human comprehension, its real leap of faith to believe God shares human emotions and moral values. Deism perhaps?

Anyways, if God created -everything- (be it creationism or evolutions or something else) - i still think its kinda selfish to believe that humans are the closest to God. Such thinking seems very common to me.
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flashpulse: WRONG! Don't confuse Christianity with the Catholic Pope.
The anglican church accepts evolution as well. So what radical sect do you belong to that is the modern version of the guys who used to defend heliocentricity and refuse to accept that the earth isn't flat? Both still "only" scientific theories btw, like evolution.
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Soyeong: One of the necessary attributes of God is that He is not contingent on anything, so if you're imagining a god that is made out of spaghetti, then it is contingent on matter for its existence, and the same argument does not work.
Did God not make man in His image? Therefore, must God not look like a man? To look like a man, must he not be made out of matter? Or are you suggesting he is a hologram, and if so, what projects it?
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Soyeong: God is self-existent and everything else exists contingently, so God is not composed of matter and doesn't look like anything we can perceive with our eyes. God is an eternal, omniscience, omnipotent, all loving, all good, and personal being. God is beyond human understanding, but there are certain aspects that we can understand.
My theory on how GOD exist...

There are opposites of everything in this world. With the added shades of grey between each opposite end. Outer space has to exist because if it didn't, it would be filled with some matter or solid. If that were the case something created the solid. So because space is "deep everlasting space", it's extreme opposite is intelligent light aka GOD who also has no beginning or end.

When GOD made man in his own image, don't just think about looks, we are also made of compressed light. Go study atoms and so forth. The compressed light is so powerful, look what effect it had with the atom bomb. "We are all nothing but compressed light." - Albert Einstein

There are things written in the Bible that if we look back now, it's hard to believe that anyone would not believe in GOD. How would have anyone known some of the things way back then, that make sense now. At least for those who actually study the Bible and are not trying to make a living off it like some preachers do.
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flashpulse: WRONG! Don't confuse Christianity with the Catholic Pope.
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jamotide: The anglican church accepts evolution as well. So what radical sect do you belong to that is the modern version of the guys who used to defend heliocentricity and refuse to accept that the earth isn't flat? Both still "only" scientific theories btw, like evolution.
I believe what Jesus said. Not what some high paid preacher or Pope tried to teach for their own good or desire.
Post edited January 30, 2014 by flashpulse
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flashpulse: Actually it's not. Two very complexed human beings were created at the same exact time and have a invisible connection, a mans seed and a woman's egg, in order to create children. On top of that, there was fruit and vegetables that have the very vitamins and minerals we need in order for us to survive. There also happen to be air and water on this very planet that these two people were created on. These all had to happen in a small time frame. One small error and nothing would exist. As you can see, the list will just keep going and going.

This is a very intelligent design. I have study this for 20 years and any evolutionist who tries to state other wise is either blind or will just flat out not except there is a GOD because they have superior issues.

If evolution was true, the venomous snake would have died of its own venom when "evolving". The giraffe would have suffered a heart attack as the giraffes heart changes when it dips its head to drink water. Again, this can keep going on too.

Yes, I'm a Christian, so I'll leave you with a quote. "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." - Psalm 14
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iippo: Can you tell is the reason that there is no life on the moon because God decided not to do it or because the living environment was not suitable for life in the first place?

Anyways, i have never-ever comprehended how evolution and God/religion are somehow supposed to be polar opposites? I rather feel that certain people want to feel that the God made them special "just so" instead of for example claim that evolution is totally valid tool for God.

Certainly i can see the attraction of magic "Bim - and there life", but for now i steal lean towards evolution theory whether there is God or not :)

If you want to refer to Bible concerning evolution, it would have been rather funny if the holiest of books was actually a detailed biology book. However, i doubt the world would have been exactly ready for that sort of science "back then"...

Suppose its only fair ill leave a quote for you as well:

"A fool believes every that is written." - Me, right now. (hint: does also apply to this thread)
The issue is whether the word translated as days could mean a longer period of time. If it means literal days, then that could put it at odds with the Earth being billions of years old. The view that it could refer to longer periods of time was expressed hundreds of years before Darwin, so it's not back-peddling. A number of Christians hold the views that evolution is part of God's intelligent design, so they see no incompatibility between it and Christianity. You are absolutely correct that the Bible is not a biology textbook and it would be a mistake to try to interpret it as one.
This is a common misconception "creation ex nihilo". However it has been well established that space isn't a vacuum in the truest sense of the word. Virtual particles are constantly being created and there is also dark matter present. Yet so far, no true vacuum has ever been found.

The human mind is too primitive and it cannot comprehend the size and extent of the universe. We are also further limited due to the finite number of senses that we carry (21 senses) through which we perceive reality. The idea of god is essentially the failure of human beings to comprehend natural phenomena and god is essentially an allusion to our ignorance.
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flashpulse: I believe what Jesus said. Not what some high paid preacher or Pope tried to teach for their own good or desire.
But how do you know what he said? Weren't the guys you quoted to me just paid preachers? How do you know they weren't just making this stuff up to enrich their own lives? And why do you believe this Jesus guy at all? Maybe he was just saying that stuff to get appreciation. Is he different from any of the numerous people that claim to be Messiahs and gather a following?
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flashpulse: The compressed light is so powerful, look what effect it had with the atom bomb. "We are all nothing but compressed light." - Albert Einstein
Yeah, Albert Einstein didn't actually say that.
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Soyeong: One of the necessary attributes of God is that He is not contingent on anything
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jamotide: Very convenient, but still how is that relevant to my post. I can make up gods that fit this criteria.
If God were contingent on something, then He would be dependent it for His existence, so He wouldn't actually be God. In other words, God being not contingent on anything is a necessary attribute for a being that corresponds to our idea of God, so it's not an attribute that's randomly made up because it sounds good.
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Soyeong: The issue is whether the word translated as days could mean a longer period of time. If it means literal days, then that could put it at odds with the Earth being billions of years old. The view that it could refer to longer periods of time was expressed hundreds of years before Darwin, so it's not back-peddling. A number of Christians hold the views that evolution is part of God's intelligent design, so they see no incompatibility between it and Christianity. You are absolutely correct that the Bible is not a biology textbook and it would be a mistake to try to interpret it as one.
The world was created in 6000 years and GOD rested the nest thousand. A day to GOD is like a thousand years to us.

There's 2000 years until the great flood to wipe out all that was unclean. Angels had laid with woman and created giants. They will be judged and put in a very dark place for what they did. Noah and his family were not tainted by the angels decedents blood and found clean.

2000 years later GOD was born in the flesh to a virgin as Jesus. He died on the cross for our sins. For those who believe and repent anyway. The Jews didn't believe Jesus was there GOD and banished from their homeland and prophesied to return later (1948 as we know now).

Another 2000 years and the Jews are back home. The generation who sees Isreal become a nation shall not pass until the Lord's second coming. The 7 years of tribulation has to happen at the end of that generation though. Then the Lord returns.

The world is roughly 13,000 years old.
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flashpulse: The compressed light is so powerful, look what effect it had with the atom bomb. "We are all nothing but compressed light." - Albert Einstein
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Shaolin_sKunk: Yeah, Albert Einstein didn't actually say that.
I read that some where. Even if he didn't, we are made of compressed light. Look up atoms and so forth.
Post edited January 30, 2014 by flashpulse