Oh well, the puritanist thing is already an accomplished fact in the US - but this is as such your responsibility to change in a more substantial ways than any one liners to our posts here.

From the self-righteous behavior I shall charitably assume Bushes Sr & Jr were fundamentalists, lest he be totally cynical - but can you vouch any other US president really was or is a believer, rather than an ambitious man?

I cannot see that realistically, a single, non-religious person shall be any time soon elected the US president, and gasp, could this person be a female... or even homosexual???

I voted for Haavisto in the last presidential election in Finland, but for his merit and his person. So, what shall you do?

And again: I certainly was not saying atheists could not be moral - I would assimilate Lenin with Jesus in level of idealism, though maybe not in self-sacrifice.

But my feeling from your response somehow is that maybe you have not given it yet too much thought how you shall be a better man with whatever you reject or can embrace as beliefs.

Edit: correct grammar

I don't need to give it too much though, there's no proof in a religion. So there's no reason to believe it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

...stuff like this makes one wonder.
ever heard of "faith"?

Anyways, in religions the "proof" tends to be rather personal rather than scientific.

Still, pimpmonkey : +3 from me for what you responded fairly, meaning anything between your first post and this - which I again think is a nonresponse.

I quite thought you might have been a troll, but this in truth made me appreciate your proper responses better, even when I think we would almost always mostly disagree.

But if you shall come into a going in position about US political system (how will you influence it) or your think through what atheist you wish to be (being at least equal to what you criticize) - either post it here, or PM me.

I will not comment meanwhile what I quite possibly subjectively think shall be a "non-responses" on this thread going forward. But I would quite like your response to any question well read, or an argued position never asked.

But I shall, besides, personally elevate you as a figurative righteous in Sodoma / Gomorra, because you cared to ponder what was said.

Faith in itself is not a reason to form a belief. Rather, it is someone's will to keep their mind fixed precisely on the reasons they had for forming that belief. For instance, if someone has good reason to trust their son home alone, they can have faith by keeping their mind focused on those reasons and acting confidently that their trust is well placed, without giving in to doubt and calling to check on them every half hour.

I take this as the cohesion factor - ie what makes humans social, also makes them merciless, when a real or supposed authority figure dictates them. But if this was our lowest denominator, shall we (Finland) not have handed over more than the seven refugees over to the Nazis during WWII?

BTW - all these years forward, anytime SUPO (Finnish Securtiy Police) pushes for more autonomy, I remember them as plausibly the most morally cohesive handmaidens of Nazis in Finland - probably they would have been quite enthusiastic to comply with the above experiment.

I need to search this further as I recall sending the article to a pseudo-nihilistic friend of mine, but it was about innate helpfulness of young infants (18 mths or so) who would mostly come to aid of a person struggling with a load and dropping something. But such young children could also tell when the thing was dropped purposefully, and would then not rush to aid.

I only found what is posted at the bottom, but hopefully shall find the original ref!

But really, one only has to read Tadeusz Borowski ("Kotimme Auschwitz") - where a son shall lead his father into the gas-chamber in hopes to survive a little longer - to see that humans can be turned against each other, but I would not say this shall be more natural than infant helpfulness cum solidarity.

http://www.hs.fi/mielipide/a1381813184767

Edit: add a few commas for readability

I have been avoiding getting involved in this topic for this very reason. It is the definition of 'moot'. In my opinion, the (dis)belief in a higher power is a person's private choice, and it should stay such. Problems only abound when governments and politics get involved, as they are wont to do.

Honestly i do not remember about that WW2 thing. I do remember Finland didnt ever hand off people to Nazi's in the numbers they requested - but i wouldnt be surprised if some were still given out for whatever reason.

Anyways, it would have been "good foreign politics" for Finland to give more or even all jews and whatever Nazi's demanded of Finland. So i actually think that the finnish government showed surprising backbone back then.

I mean its very rare for any politician to actually show backbone and either admit to mistake or really risk their career for their (political) convinctions. Worringly many are more of the slippery teflon-type.

It's been solved already, and the point is not moot. The fewer people believing in a selfish, xenophobic, sexist and invisible dictatorship residing in the sky, the better. Down with these bastards, they only rule in the recesses of our monkey brains, time to use reason and logic and all that shit and leave superstition to bygone ages. Is it not self evident that the very gods we idealize and worship for thousands of years tend to bring the absolute worst out of humanity? One would think after a few millennia they'd get it right, but no. More raping, genocide, pedophilia, war, human slavery, you name it, we have more of it now than ever before, all under the auspices of some desert-dwelling douchebags who died long ago and should have been forgotten.

I will take a potshot at you were born into christian family and country where christianity was the "main beef" so to speak?

I mean if i had born in muslim country, i would most likely be muslim. Had i born in Israel i would be jew. Had i born India i would be hindi. ...and so it goes.

On average people tend to keep and value the beliefs and, well values of their childhood also later in their life. Ofcourse there are always converts and those who lose their faith (if they had one) - but i dare to say that on average most stick to what they were born with.

Anyways - i was not asked where i wanted to be born, not certain if someone else choice in the matter.

--

Existence of God - well that is ofcourse hard one. Instead of arguing about God's existence, i have some seriously trouble understanding what kind of person/entity/force/?? "God" would actually be in the first place. I mean for something to be able to create "everything" has pretty much lovecraftian implications of being way-way over human understanding and comprehension.

-> In this sense i actually see some great wisdom in (for example) muslim ban on depicting God.

Hey. You shouldn't blame monkeys for this. You don't see them worshiping "God" and "Jesus", do you? They know better.

So how does that make what I said wrong, especially "in both directions"? So are you saying it is rational, but not intelligent to believe in something somebody made up? How is it relevant what those gods attributes are? I did not say anything about false or true at all.
And I did not assume anyone is irrational because they have a different opinion, I assume they are irrational because they are irrational. They could have my opinion (see below) and still be irrational.

btw...did you know "jamotide" is the name of a large team of gods that created everything, even your god? If you don't believe that,you are an atheist.

War is always motivated by politics and the lust for money and power, so there would be plenty of cruelty to each other even if there were no religions. You just have to look at the death caused by atheists in the last century to see religion is not the problem here. Religion is often used as a convenient tool by politicians to gain support and unfortunately people have short memories. I think if more people behaved like Jesus taught people to behave, then the world would be a much better place, and you would see that religion can also bring out the absolute best of humanity.

Jesus was an idiot. That turn the other cheek shit does not work. As for the rest of your post, you're in a comfortable fantasy land. Try your thinking in Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt. See how it works.