It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
25
50
75
100
125
150
158
This is my favourite topic
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
hedwards: We're just having a bit of fun. This isn't bad, if you want bad, go over to someplace like MSN.com and have a look at their comment section when anything even tangentially related to religion comes up. Which oddly enough, is most articles.
avatar
Leucius: Still, I worded it poorly. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression :) Hence the deletion of the OP. We're finally getting back to normal after the holiday nightmares, I don't want to contribute to regression ;)
To paraphrase one of my heroes, I'm athiest to all religions the same way you are to every other religion. Just go one god more.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
Novotnus: But I like gaming :) And my IQ test showed only 124, so I'm 24 points away from Mensa (by polish standards) :)
IQ tests measure how good you are at IQ tests. :) I can say this comfortably because I have scored 164 on "official" tests, and 192 on unofficial ones. And I am neither Stephen Hawking nor Kurt Gödel.

EDIT: Oo, ninja on the sentiment while posting! More fool me. ;)
Post edited January 23, 2014 by IAmSinistar
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
Leucius: or that atheists are some sort of satanic cult
They know they aren't :)
avatar
Telika: horrrs
avatar
tinyE: The irony of Telika posting in a religious thread, look at his rep. XD
vade retro !
Post edited January 23, 2014 by Potzato
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
undeadcow: For this reason a lot of established religion feels more like an attempt at culture and social control than some honest self actualization.
avatar
Neobr10: But religions are indeed considered to be a form of social control by social science.
Quite so. Indeed, this is arguably the primary function of religion, though abatement of totenangst is also a top contender. Religion serves to reign in our baser natures and to allow co-operation and cohesion. It is also why religion is so tribal and team-like - it holds your community together against other, competing communities. All goes back to sticking together in order to share resources among our own group, and to try to prevent things like violence and incest.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
Neobr10: But religions are indeed considered to be a form of social control by social science.
Seeing as how some of the religious folk are quick to say "Without God there's no morality. Therefore why wouldn't I just kill, steal, and rape to my heart's content? There's no consequences!" It's a kind of control I'm glad is there for the people who clearly need it.

It's baffling to me because the people who tell me that without a hint of irony are basically saying "The only thing that stops me from killing, stealing, and raping is the belief that there is a God watching me." Jesus, man, that's not very Christ-like thinking at all.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
Neobr10: But religions are indeed considered to be a form of social control by social science.
avatar
Shaolin_sKunk: Seeing as how some of the religious folk are quick to say "Without God there's no morality. Therefore why wouldn't I just kill, steal, and rape to my heart's content? There's no consequences!" It's a kind of control I'm glad is there for the people who clearly need it.

It's baffling to me because the people who tell me that without a hint of irony are basically saying "The only thing that stops me from killing, stealing, and raping is the belief that there is a God watching me." Jesus, man, that's not very Christ-like thinking at all.
Yet he calls for killing all the time, and is far from meek and mild.
Posted January 23, 2014
Looks like I missed the OP, but as an atheist I have no problems with people having a religion. My problem with religion arises from people using it to push their ideas on other people, taking advantage of their fellow man, and using it as a tax shelter. Not to mention holding up some work of fiction as reason enough of your hatred for homosexuals, abortion, Wiccans, and any other "evilness" that modern man performs.
avatar
pimpmonkey2382: How about some nice soothing music? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qjThdQrCOM
I prefer this one.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by jjsimp
Posted January 23, 2014
Actually I think atheists do have a faith - that "God" doesn't exist. They might not call it "faith", but nonetheless. Faiths are based on beliefs, and every single person alive has beliefs. Saying you don't believe in "God" is simply stating that you believe something else, not "I don't believe in God, therefore I don't believe in anything else either." Even if that belief is that we are simply random constructions floating through the universe and we'll die and that's that. That's my take on it, anyway.

Personally, I don't go in for a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible. Too many people, in my opinion, don't learn about the history of how things were back then, and so they don't really understand how these books came about. They forget the humanity involved. Too much blind obedience, not enough critical thinking.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
Leucius: I worded it very poorly. I never meant to imply an "us versus them" mentality or that atheists are some sort of satanic cult or fad - I meant the opposite.
Yeah but your post (which you shouldn't have erased) did somehow imply that atheists were "against" believers. It gave me the impression that, by atheists, you meant aggressively zealous antireligious dickheads, which are a subcategory atheism shouldn't be reduced to.

Basically I agree with your post, but I was a bit perplexed by how "not obvious" you were making it, or how you assumed it wouldn't be obvious to atheists. Many (most, dare I believe) of them simply don't consider religion as important enough to argue about it, and not significant enough to judge people (or assume someone's values) through it.

Your post felt like a white flag waved on a field with no war - leading me to believe that you believed that there was one going on.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
DieRuhe: Actually I think atheists do have a faith - that "God" doesn't exist. They might not call it "faith", but nonetheless. Faiths are based on beliefs, and every single person alive has beliefs. Saying you don't believe in "God" is simply stating that you believe something else, not "I don't believe in God, therefore I don't believe in anything else either." Even if that belief is that we are simply random constructions floating through the universe and we'll die and that's that. That's my take on it, anyway.

Personally, I don't go in for a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible. Too many people, in my opinion, don't learn about the history of how things were back then, and so they don't really understand how these books came about. They forget the humanity involved. Too much blind obedience, not enough critical thinking.
No it's not faith, because we don't claim something to exist, the religious do. It's on them to prove that it does.


The greatest tool to create athiests is actually reading the bible.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by pimpmonkey2382
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
DieRuhe: They forget the humanity involved. Too much blind obedience, not enough critical thinking.
^Exactly this^

~well stated, DieRuhe~
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
DieRuhe: Actually I think atheists do have a faith - that "God" doesn't exist.
They'd call it "assumption", or "most probable work hypothesis", but again, you could also call many believers' faith the same way. Both sides see it as a "justified belief". It's often opposed (atheists and believers often agree on that) as "rational thinking" (science) versus "gut feeling" (faith), but in practice there's always a mix of them both (many atheists also have the gut feeling of religious absurdity, many believers also give logical justifications to their belief), plus, in both cases, conformism (there is the guilt and shame of doubt on both sides).
Post edited January 23, 2014 by Telika
Posted January 23, 2014
Faith would be me saying I have gremlins in my bedroom, but to believe it simply because I have a bedroom.
Posted January 23, 2014
I have to say, one of my berserk buttons is "Jesus is love". "God is love" would probably work, too, but I don't hear it as much. Sure it can be, but it doesn't have to. Too many priest murderers in my country, even in my direct family, to take that sentence without getting annoyed.

So long as they don't try to push those ideas onto me, I don't give a damn. And with the OP deleted, I can't really argue about anything one way or the other, so I'll leave it there.
Posted January 23, 2014
avatar
DieRuhe: Actually I think atheists do have a faith - that "God" doesn't exist.
avatar
pimpmonkey2382: No it's not faith, because we don't claim something to exist, the religious do. It's on them to prove that it does.
Bingo. The original comment is an example of false equivalence. It's like saying "transparent" is a colour, when it is in fact the absence of colour. When one creates an artificial system of supposed universal categorisation, then one has to resort to false equivalence to get those things from outside the system to "fit".

avatar
pimpmonkey2382: The greatest tool to create athiests is actually reading the bible.
And understanding it. Too many read it and accept it as, well, gospel. If you come to it with the understanding that it is centuries worth of writing, editing, (mis)translation, myth-making, tribal law, and mystic vision, you are much better prepared to place it in context.

EDIT: I understand what parallel DieRuhe intended, it just gets my hackles up when people use that logical flaw.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by IAmSinistar
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
25
50
75
100
125
150
158
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)