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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: I believe that if God exists, he still has to play by some rules, whether of the universe, multiverse, oververse, or whatever. Including rules of logic. And logically, he would be unable to prove that he is, in fact, the ultimate power in all of existance, and not a puppet of a yet greater power (The Thirteenth Floor effect.)

Nope, nothing in DNA could prove it. Even if you decode "Hi there, I'm GOD, I created you" in the DNA, doesn't mean it's the creator of all things. We could all be some alien science project.

Basically DNA could hold proof that it is artificial, but not of the existence of some all-powerful being.
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mystikmind2000: A good point, but talk of aliens/Other making us does not answer the question of the beginning of life, it simply exports the question, unanswered, to somewhere else in the Universe.
But we're talking about the proof of God here, not the beginning of life. You could follow the chain of science project all the way to a time loop if you cared to :)

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kalirion: Is there a flaw in my argument somewhere?
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pimpmonkey2382: A little too much unsubstantiated sci fi. :P (I love sci fi though.)
But how is an alien any less substantiated than any religion's god, when an alien could start any religion itself?

The whole sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic / miracle is true. Why should I, seeing an apparent miracle, attribute it to God instead of aliens?


By the way, everyone here who hasn't yet, needs to read The Last Question by Isaac Asimov.

No aliens, I promise ;)
Post edited January 23, 2014 by kalirion
Posted January 23, 2014
I'll put this hypothetically. If there WAS a god, and even though say I'm a good person, never hurt anyone, etc. But still chose to punish me with eternal torment for the sole fact that I didn't believe because there was no evidence. Even if he was real, that's not a god I'd want to worship anyway.
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mystikmind2000: A good point, but talk of aliens/Other making us does not answer the question of the beginning of life, it simply exports the question, unanswered, to somewhere else in the Universe.
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kalirion: But we're talking about the proof of God here, not the beginning of life. You could follow the chain of science project all the way to a time loop if you cared to :)

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pimpmonkey2382: A little too much unsubstantiated sci fi. :P (I love sci fi though.)
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kalirion: But how is an alien any less substantiated than any religion's god, when an alien could start any religion itself?

The whole sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic / miracle is true. Why should I, seeing an apparent miracle, attribute it to God instead of aliens?
Miracles would have to exist first.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by pimpmonkey2382
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I'll put this hypothetically. If there WAS a god, and even though say I'm a good person, never hurt anyone, etc. But still chose to punish me with eternal torment for the sole fact that I didn't believe because there was no evidence. Even if he was real, that's not a god I'd want to worship anyway.
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kalirion: But we're talking about the proof of God here, not the beginning of life. You could follow the chain of science project all the way to a time loop if you cared to :)

But how is an alien any less substantiated than any religion's god, when an alien could start any religion itself?

The whole sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic / miracle is true. Why should I, seeing an apparent miracle, attribute it to God instead of aliens?
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pimpmonkey2382: Miracles would have to exist first.
I did say apparent miracle. Replace it with "flashy beneficial phenomenon going against the laws of science as we know them." if you will.

And I agree with you about not wanting to worship that kind of god, but then I wouldn't want to worship any kind of god anyway, even if I believed in them.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I'll put this hypothetically. If there WAS a god, and even though say I'm a good person, never hurt anyone, etc. But still chose to punish me with eternal torment for the sole fact that I didn't believe because there was no evidence. Even if he was real, that's not a god I'd want to worship anyway.

Miracles would have to exist first.
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kalirion: I did say apparent miracle. Replace it with "flashy beneficial phenomenon going against the laws of science as we know them." if you will.

And I agree with you about not wanting to worship that kind of god, but then I wouldn't want to worship any kind of god anyway, even if I believed in them.
Well then I can say my penis has the wonderful ability to make beer appear out of thin air. It would be highly illogical to also just attribute the beer to aliens.
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: I did say apparent miracle. Replace it with "flashy beneficial phenomenon going against the laws of science as we know them." if you will.

And I agree with you about not wanting to worship that kind of god, but then I wouldn't want to worship any kind of god anyway, even if I believed in them.
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pimpmonkey2382: Well then I can say my penis has the wonderful ability to make beer appear out of thin air. It would be highly illogical to also just attribute the beer to aliens.
Obviously there's a beer materializing alien living in your penis.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Well then I can say my penis has the wonderful ability to make beer appear out of thin air. It would be highly illogical to also just attribute the beer to aliens.
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kalirion: Obviously there's a beer materializing alien living in your penis.
And it lives within many things.
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: Obviously there's a beer materializing alien living in your penis.
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pimpmonkey2382: And it lives within many things.
As long as you keep it away from me, I won't sick my personal alien-perforation squad on your penis.
Posted January 23, 2014
Note to self: Never ask anyone to prove the existence of God,, in-case they say "OK"
Posted January 23, 2014
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mystikmind2000: Note to self: Never ask anyone to prove the existence of God,, in-case they say "OK"
They can "say OK" however many times they want, but they would still have to do it.
Posted January 23, 2014
Another short story, really short one: [url=http://www.roma1.infn.it/~anzel/answer.html]http://www.roma1.infn.it/~anzel/answer.html[/url] :D
Posted January 23, 2014
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mystikmind2000: Note to self: Never ask anyone to prove the existence of God,, in-case they say "OK"
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pimpmonkey2382: They can "say OK" however many times they want, but they would still have to do it.
Ah, actually it was a bit of a joke, due to what i was reading in some earlier posts.... i don't want them to kill me!
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: They can "say OK" however many times they want, but they would still have to do it.
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mystikmind2000: Ah, actually it was a bit of a joke, due to what i was reading in some earlier posts.... i don't want them to kill me!
Don't worry if they do, you'll not see a jewish zombie on a stick. :P
Posted January 23, 2014
This phred no longer amuses me.
Posted January 23, 2014
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hedwards: This phred no longer amuses me.
Yeah starting to get boring. lol
Posted January 23, 2014
low rated
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ThoRn: Can't do that until you die and see for yourself. Likewise I'm in the same boat as you. But unlike you, I'm not folding my cards and giving up my faith to play Russian roulette with my soul. The odds of losing are too great to do such a foolish thing.
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pimpmonkey2382: Thus you're selling an invisible product, and I'm outright dismissing your claims. Goodbye.
Rest in Peace when you die either way friend. No hate or judgment from me.

You know, I've always felt that this Earth wasn't big enough for 2 or more people on it and there will be no world peace until I'm the last standing survivor. Because 2 or more people will find something to argue and fight over. If God created this world just for Adam then that makes sense. It wasn't until Eve showed up that things went to hell quite literally. But damn, that fine female ass is really hard to turn away. Lust was man's first sin and I still show evidence of it now with what I say.

Anyways, it's been a good, albeit a pointless debate, and I think even after 300+ replies to this thread we're all still where we started. Meaning that after 5000+ posts to this thread nothing will be any different than it is now. It's the ultimate troll thread really. And while it's been very civil and grown up thus far, I think it best if it was locked soon before it does turn ugly as frustrations are sure to grow out of hand.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)