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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I highly doubt anything will show evidence of "god".
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kalirion: anything is possible

But nothing can prove the existence of god.

If I see a guy who looks like the common image of Jesus Christ, walking on water, healing the sick, turning water to wine and multiplying fish and loaves of bread.... there are any number of explanations that would pop into my head as being no less likely than "this is the son of God".
I like how the common image of god is always a white guy also. Blue eyes, brown hair, in the ancient middle east.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I like how the common image of god is always a white guy also. Blue eyes, brown hair, in the ancient middle east.
Traits inherited from his Father, no doubt ;)
Post edited January 23, 2014 by kalirion
Posted January 23, 2014
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mystikmind2000: If tomorrow world science announced the discovery of proof that God exists-
Honestly, probably not many would choose to believe it.

If tomorrow world science announced the discovery of conclusive proof that Evolution is correct-
Honestly, probably not many would choose to believe it.
I disagree about the first point. If science scientifically conclusively concluded in a god, scientifics would be just "oh, hello" and for many "well, that was unexpected, but, so there". Of course, the god would have been kinda brought down to something "scientisable", which might be a contradiction in terms (the ghostbusters effect? Carpenter's prince of darkness toyed amusingly with the idea of putting the devil in equation, and there was another movie that nicely played with the notion of a scientist dangerously on the edge of discovering the paradise- god was unhappy).

I half disagree about the second point. Evolution is pretty much established already, and many many believers have no problem about it. The god idea is, by definition, compatible with everything. Only those who have a very specific idea of religion, with a very litteral read of their bible, and a high importance given on mythological tales taken at face-value have trouble with that, and will have no matter what. Most believers just incorporate science into their worldview.

So no, no big clash, normally.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I highly doubt anything will show evidence of "god".
I'm religious and I agree. God doesn't exist in this universe and doesn't have to play by the same rules he's bestowed upon us. What goes up might not come down in his realm. But in ours, we know that's a law.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I like how the common image of god is always a white guy also. Blue eyes, brown hair, in the ancient middle east.
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kalirion: Traits inherited from his Father, no doubt ;)
Who is also him, who sent his son on a suicide mission...or himself. Couldn't just forgive sins, needed someone to die first.
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pimpmonkey2382: I highly doubt anything will show evidence of "god".
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ThoRn: I'm religious and I agree. God doesn't exist in this universe and doesn't have to play by the same rules he's bestowed upon us. What goes up might not come down in his realm. But in ours, we know that's a law.
All I have to say is, prove it.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by pimpmonkey2382
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: But nothing can prove the existence of god.
Possibly DNA would.... Because, if God created life then the ultimate evidence will be in the DNA, there would be no getting around it, ,, unless God went to extreme measures to hide it..... which is highly likely given the reasons for hiding thus far will not have changed, but i will wait and see?
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I highly doubt anything will show evidence of "god".
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ThoRn: I'm religious and I agree. God doesn't exist in this universe and doesn't have to play by the same rules he's bestowed upon us. What goes up might not come down in his realm. But in ours, we know that's a law.
I believe that if God exists, he still has to play by some rules, whether of the universe, multiverse, oververse, or whatever. Including rules of logic. And logically, he would be unable to prove that he is, in fact, the ultimate power in all of existance, and not a puppet of a yet greater power (The Thirteenth Floor effect.)

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kalirion: But nothing can prove the existence of god.
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mystikmind2000: Possibly DNA would.... Because, if God created life then the ultimate evidence will be in the DNA, there would be no getting around it, ,, unless God went to extreme measures to hide it..... which is highly likely given the reasons for hiding thus far will not have changed, but i will wait and see?
Nope, nothing in DNA could prove it. Even if you decode "Hi there, I'm GOD, I created you" in the DNA, doesn't mean it's the creator of all things. We could all be some alien science project.

Basically DNA could hold proof that it is artificial, but not of the existence of some all-powerful being.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by kalirion
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: But nothing can prove the existence of god.
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mystikmind2000: Possibly DNA would.... Because, if God created life then the ultimate evidence will be in the DNA, there would be no getting around it, ,, unless God went to extreme measures to hide it..... which is highly likely given the reasons for hiding thus far will not have changed, but i will wait and see?
Believing that it is so, won't make it so.
Posted January 23, 2014
Anyone here familiar with Q from Star Trek?

A race of seemingly all-powerful beings - but nobody would argue that they are The Creator (though they might have the power to create whole universes should they wish to.)

Any one such alien could easily pretend to be The Creator, and who would know the difference?

Therefore, no proof.
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: Anyone here familiar with Q from Star Trek?

A race of seemingly all-powerful beings - but nobody would argue that they are The Creator (though they might have the power to create whole universes should they wish to.)

Any one such alien could easily pretend to be The Creator, and who would know the difference?

Therefore, no proof.
I need to do whatever drugs you're on. :)
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: Anyone here familiar with Q from Star Trek?

A race of seemingly all-powerful beings - but nobody would argue that they are The Creator (though they might have the power to create whole universes should they wish to.)

Any one such alien could easily pretend to be The Creator, and who would know the difference?

Therefore, no proof.
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pimpmonkey2382: I need to do whatever drugs you're on. :)
Is there a flaw in my argument somewhere?
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: I need to do whatever drugs you're on. :)
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kalirion: Is there a flaw in my argument somewhere?
A little too much unsubstantiated sci fi. :P (I love sci fi though.)
Posted January 23, 2014
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ThoRn: I'm religious and I agree. God doesn't exist in this universe and doesn't have to play by the same rules he's bestowed upon us. What goes up might not come down in his realm. But in ours, we know that's a law.
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kalirion: I believe that if God exists, he still has to play by some rules, whether of the universe, multiverse, oververse, or whatever. Including rules of logic. And logically, he would be unable to prove that he is, in fact, the ultimate power in all of existance, and not a puppet of a yet greater power (The Thirteenth Floor effect.)

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mystikmind2000: Possibly DNA would.... Because, if God created life then the ultimate evidence will be in the DNA, there would be no getting around it, ,, unless God went to extreme measures to hide it..... which is highly likely given the reasons for hiding thus far will not have changed, but i will wait and see?
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kalirion: Nope, nothing in DNA could prove it. Even if you decode "Hi there, I'm GOD, I created you" in the DNA, doesn't mean it's the creator of all things. We could all be some alien science project.

Basically DNA could hold proof that it is artificial, but not of the existence of some all-powerful being.
A good point, but talk of aliens/Other making us does not answer the question of the beginning of life, it simply exports the question, unanswered, to somewhere else in the Universe.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by mystikmind2000
Posted January 23, 2014
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kalirion: Traits inherited from his Father, no doubt ;)
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pimpmonkey2382: Who is also him, who sent his son on a suicide mission...or himself. Couldn't just forgive sins, needed someone to die first.
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ThoRn: I'm religious and I agree. God doesn't exist in this universe and doesn't have to play by the same rules he's bestowed upon us. What goes up might not come down in his realm. But in ours, we know that's a law.
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pimpmonkey2382: All I have to say is, prove it.
Can't do that until you die and see for yourself. Likewise I'm in the same boat as you. But unlike you, I'm not folding my cards and giving up my faith to play Russian roulette with my soul. The odds of losing are too great to do such a foolish thing.
Posted January 23, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Who is also him, who sent his son on a suicide mission...or himself. Couldn't just forgive sins, needed someone to die first.

All I have to say is, prove it.
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ThoRn: Can't do that until you die and see for yourself. Likewise I'm in the same boat as you. But unlike you, I'm not folding my cards and giving up my faith to play Russian roulette with my soul. The odds of losing are too great to do such a foolish thing.
Thus you're selling an invisible product, and I'm outright dismissing your claims. Goodbye.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)