It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
mystikmind2000: Take the evidence in support of Evolution, remove the assumptions and what do you have left? That is what i mean by almost no evidence.

But i am not one of those types of people who will reject blatantly obvious things such as 'natural selection' which anyone can see is true. Going beyond that, i have not seen anything else in support of Evolution that does not have an assumption attached to it, this is something many people do not realize about evolution.
avatar
hedwards: You take away the assumptions and you still have a crap load of evidence pointing towards evolution. You take away the assumptions from creationism and you have absolutely nothing whatsoever. There's a reason why most Christians accept evolution. Hell, even the Pope accepts it and that's been going back decades.

I assume that you're trolling, because this level of ignorance is astonishing.
I highly doubt he's even studied it anyway.
avatar
pimpmonkey2382: What assumptions?
avatar
Telika: The interpretations of factual elements and the theoretical model that ties them together. There always "thought out" causality to fill the blanks, in any science (or in any peception of anything, including language and communication). You can always break down everything to some amount of faith or belief (wait, are you SURE you are reading this and not hallucinating ?).

However, what perplexed me, is that religious fundamentalists point at this as a shortcoming of scientific endeavour, while still doing the same thing at a broader scale and higher magnitude. It's okay if you choose one less refined theory for general miracles if the narrative suits you so much better, but... don't use the specific argument of a thought process you're immensely more guilty of, guys. :-/
I think he's confusing theoretical possibilities with assumptions, but the difference is when a scientist is proven wrong. He accepts it, the religious have no proof and demand others see their view as true.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by pimpmonkey2382
avatar
hedwards: If you're skeptical of what the mainstream scientific community has to say after having weighed the evidence. Then it's your responsibility to dig into it and find some actual evidence that falsifies those theories. The fact that no creationist has managed to do that, is a reliable indication that evolution is true and creationism isn't.
Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
avatar
mystikmind2000: Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
Can you specify what 'assumptions' you're talking about?
avatar
hedwards: If you're skeptical of what the mainstream scientific community has to say after having weighed the evidence. Then it's your responsibility to dig into it and find some actual evidence that falsifies those theories. The fact that no creationist has managed to do that, is a reliable indication that evolution is true and creationism isn't.
avatar
mystikmind2000: Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
AKA: You're pulling it out of your ass.
avatar
hedwards: If you're skeptical of what the mainstream scientific community has to say after having weighed the evidence. Then it's your responsibility to dig into it and find some actual evidence that falsifies those theories. The fact that no creationist has managed to do that, is a reliable indication that evolution is true and creationism isn't.
avatar
mystikmind2000: Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
Because the evidence has been examined and evolution is the only reasonable theory that doesn't run afoul of it. It shows up in DNA, in fossil, there's geological records that help explain the distribution and subsequent separation of subspecies.

OTOH, with creationism, you have a book backing it up. That book was the result of picking and choosing which books to include in the anthology, and is known to contain things that never happened.

The point is, that you need to put up or shut up. If you don't have credible evidence to support creationism, then you aren't in a position to claim that creationism is real.

The reality is that creationism versus evolution was debated in the scientific community in the past and all of the evidence came out in favor of evolutionism. The only debate going on now is about which theory of evolution is the correct one. As I've mentioned before even the Catholic Church recognizes that evolution is real.And they're not exactly the most progressive sect of Christianity.
avatar
hedwards: If you're skeptical of what the mainstream scientific community has to say after having weighed the evidence. Then it's your responsibility to dig into it and find some actual evidence that falsifies those theories. The fact that no creationist has managed to do that, is a reliable indication that evolution is true and creationism isn't.
I don't like this science. You've taken a stance of "true until proven false". Failure to disprove is not proof of the alternative, nor (in itself) a reliable indication. I assume there was a level of irony in your post, as I think you and I both appreciate that the point that it really is just a proof that we haven't proved it.
low rated
avatar
mystikmind2000: Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
avatar
Coelocanth: Can you specify what 'assumptions' you're talking about?
Errr,,, what isn't and assumption?? ... What i mean is, whatever i hear, read or watch about Evolution, it's all assumptions - some of them very clever, but assumptions none the less.
avatar
iippo: ...US history is full of "us/them" dualism actually. Just look at your everyday politics, you call two party system democracy? ;)
avatar
hedwards: I get really tired of Europeans saying this kind of crap about the US. The number of parties is completely immaterial to the question of democracy. Whether you have 1 party or 2 dozen parties makes no difference. I
*cough*

Might want to live and follow politics of some foreign country with several parties.

You know two party system is just one step away from...guess what?
avatar
mystikmind2000: Errr,,, what isn't and assumption?? ... What i mean is, whatever i hear, read or watch about Evolution, it's all assumptions - some of them very clever, but assumptions none the less.
Again, like what?
i am sensing some turtle defense on "the religious side" :)
avatar
mystikmind2000: Your getting ahead of me here.... I'm still at the stage of examining the mainstream scientific assumptions about evolution. And why it is considered to be true on such a scale when it is so hugely reliant on these assumptions?
avatar
hedwards: Because the evidence has been examined and evolution is the only reasonable theory that doesn't run afoul of it. It shows up in DNA, in fossil, there's geological records that help explain the distribution and subsequent separation of subspecies.
The evidence only explains what it is 'assumed' to explain - this is the whole point of my question! Just once, i would like to see something that has no human assumption attached to it.
avatar
hedwards: Because the evidence has been examined and evolution is the only reasonable theory that doesn't run afoul of it. It shows up in DNA, in fossil, there's geological records that help explain the distribution and subsequent separation of subspecies.
avatar
mystikmind2000: The evidence only explains what it is 'assumed' to explain - this is the whole point of my question! Just once, i would like to see something that has no human assumption attached to it.
You're staying abstract. I think your interlocutors would like you to give a practical exemple (and maybe also an exemple of the opposite - some scientific knowledge that you don't consider to be a "mere assumption").
Post edited January 23, 2014 by Telika
avatar
hedwards: I get really tired of Europeans saying this kind of crap about the US. The number of parties is completely immaterial to the question of democracy. Whether you have 1 party or 2 dozen parties makes no difference. I
avatar
iippo: *cough*

Might want to live and follow politics of some foreign country with several parties.

You know two party system is just one step away from...guess what?
A 3 party system?

Anyways, if you're going to lecture me about living where there's a different system, then you really should take your own advice. We have more than just 2 parties here and even if you ignore the tiny ones, you still have plenty of diversity within the parties.

Like I said earlier, if you're going to make this kind of absurd claim, you should at least bother to understand our system. The GOP alone is made up of what are really 3 different parties, and the Democrats are made up of at least as many. The fact that they're all under the same name, does not mean that there isn't diversity there.

When we took the parties out of the nomination process, we wound up with no fewer than 11 different parties on the ballot that first election. Previously, they would all have been either GOP or Democratic, same exact range of choices.
avatar
hedwards: Because the evidence has been examined and evolution is the only reasonable theory that doesn't run afoul of it. It shows up in DNA, in fossil, there's geological records that help explain the distribution and subsequent separation of subspecies.
avatar
mystikmind2000: The evidence only explains what it is 'assumed' to explain - this is the whole point of my question! Just once, i would like to see something that has no human assumption attached to it.
So, I take it every time you see a door, you walk up to it, turn the knob and open it, just to make sure that it's actually a door.
Post edited January 23, 2014 by hedwards
avatar
mystikmind2000: The evidence only explains what it is 'assumed' to explain - this is the whole point of my question! Just once, i would like to see something that has no human assumption attached to it.
Says the Creationist.

Alanis Morissette could learn a thing or two from this guy...
avatar
hedwards: Because the evidence has been examined and evolution is the only reasonable theory that doesn't run afoul of it. It shows up in DNA, in fossil, there's geological records that help explain the distribution and subsequent separation of subspecies.
avatar
mystikmind2000: The evidence only explains what it is 'assumed' to explain - this is the whole point of my question! Just once, i would like to see something that has no human assumption attached to it.
And there's absolutely zero, zilch, 0, nada evidence for religion. Troll.