Thanks for putting my vague thoughts into proper coherent explanations. The superdense always existing singularity thing is just what I meant :D

This is exactly the reason why I can't stop discussing these subjects. I don't delude myself to thinking I can convince those that are vocal about their beliefs - most often those you actively take part in the dispute. These people are for the most part are too deeply rooted in their..., let's say, faith, and too apt at quelling the cognitive dissonance.
But there are those people who are wavering, insecure, curious or dissatisfied and doubting. Helping them making a "more informed" choice about their take on life/belief is one of my aims.

The other one is just plain selfish cantankerousness ;-), or just the fun of dispute.

You mean you target the weak and draw them to <insert evil character of any religion> to lose their <insert your version of spirit/soul> forever! That makes you the worst. Repent of your ways!!!! >:|

But it's really a matter of points, and fortunately they all lead to enlightenment should one follow them. The arguments come when people argue on dead ends or when they haven't lead each other to the correct points. When all goes well it becomes a journey of discovery rather than attack. :)

"Somebody once wrote, "Hell is the impossibility of reason." That's what this place feels like. Hell."
Chris Taylor (Platoon)

Some people mistake stubbornness and obstinacy for strength, that's right.

I don't believe in "correct points". But I agree about the dead ends and the journey image. If I want anything it's preventing people from taking a very limited point of view, ignoring or disregarding the richness and variety of concepts and ideas in the world and ostracizing people of different opinions and beliefs. This goes for both "militant" atheists or believers.

I think even those get to thinking, but don't want to show it. The church outlawed this kind of talk for good reason, there is nothing to gain for the superstitious in such discussions.

atheist means you don't believe in fantasy. J/K

True. Often those most strident in pronouncing their beliefs are the ones most in doubt. It is by trying to convince others that they seek to assuage themselves.

The primary functions of religion (abatement of fear of death, strictures of morality and ethics, social cohesion) can suffer when examined too closely or methodically, and thus debate is discouraged. It is replaced by contemplation of accepted doctrine. Which is a shame, because sometime vigorous progress can be made by debating these issues. The difficulty comes from the side of the believer, who is too frequently unwilling to move in their position, and thus to progress.

JK as in JK Rowling?

I am an atheist I don't believe Fantasy things exist, but I enjoy them.

I find that this is true of parents that drive minivans. They constantly advocate that I get one myself, and resent seeing me stuff my children into a sporty hatchback. "A minivan would be so much easier. You have to have one." They don't like to see that the compromises they've made were unnecessary.

Good example. We like to placate the demons of our doubts and reinforce that our poor decisions were in fact good ones by getting others to accompany us in our folly.

EDIT: Also, there is the fact that some people are wired such that conformity triggers the reward circuit in the brain. They see others whom they perceive as social peers doing the same things they do, and this gives them a hit of positive reinforcement. Conversely, when they see such peers not doing as they do, this is a negative hit. This kind of wiring has some benefits towards group cohesion, but it is also a detriment towards individuality and innovation. At its extreme it leads to people who cannot conceive of others thinking differently from themselves and still being valid humans.

Any vehicle-related properties that they feel they've had to give up or reduce for the sake of inserting or extracting children without bending.

Fair enough. I just didn't really see what was compromised and was curious if people had said anything about it (I own a minivan, but don't go around telling other people that have kids that they need to buy one).

I don't have any children, that I know of.