toxicTom: I don't believe in miracles in the sense of some external supernatural power taking an influence of the world. Things I've witnessed and done could be considered miracles by some (or "magick"). But I think they're entirely natural, just in a plane of reality that science does not look into. The science world (like religious folk) has their own restrictions on free thought. Scientists are too afraid to embarass themselves in front of their colleagues to try to look into the "metaphysical" realm. Or maybe, like on the quantum level the result of the experiment is influenced by the intention of the observer, there are things that kind of "refuse" to be measured and picked apart.
What's to stop the supernatural realm from being a plane of reality that science does not look into?
I'd like to have some sources for that. I've not ever read anywhere that the jew treated women better than, say, the Greek or Romans. On the contrary, with a pantheon that included goddesses like Athene, those women had a good chance to high-ranking positions in society.
Also it's pretty well documented how christianity treated women and how their situation turned a lot for the worse when the Christans took over. Don't be blind.
http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok558/2014/02/22/deeper-waters-women-in-the-nt http://christianthinktank.com/fem09.html There are a number of posts there in the last one, just replace 09 with a different number.
I won't deny that there have been women who have been mistreated, but is that because of their religion or part of their patriarchal culture?
No the focus is enduring this life, and if bad happens it's obviously God's will and wait for the reward after death. And death means the individual death and the end of the world. If life was the message, why is the Christian symbol one of suffering and death (the crucifix) and not the ascending Jesus?
Enduring trials in this life perhaps, but life itself is seen as a gift rather than something to endure. People who have bad things happen to them will be comforted, but there is no reward system for it in the afterlife. The death and resurrection of Jesus are of central importance to Christianity, but the emphasis is on the resurrection. Jesus ascending doesn't symbolize much.
And there were no children, pregnant women, mentally challenged people in those cities? Only evil, evil grown-ups that of their own free will and with waterproof evidence of their doing wrong?
And since the old cities were effectivly city states, wiping one out counts as genocide.
Children were dependent on men for survival, so perhaps you would prefer if they had starved to death instead? If a father makes a poor decision and goes to jail, if his family is not able to survive, then the responsibility is on his own head. And they weren't targeted because they belonged to a certain ethnicity, but because of their actions, so it's not genocide.
Well, wrath should be below an omnipotent being and is incompatible to "justice". I won't go into justice now, because I have no time right now, but you should know the difference between a lynching (the Old Testment's god) and a fair trial.
Wrath can be more excessive than justice, but it is not necessarily incompatible with it. The point of a fair trial is to determine guilt, but if God already knows they're guilty, then I not sure what good you think going through a trial would do.
Then why all the problems with sex and birth control? Why the focus on physical punishment for "sin"? Self-chastising? Those are mostly christan phenomena.
Sex is a gift from God, but there a rules about how the gift is to be used. Catholics believe that sex should be both an expression of live and open to procreation, so they are against birth control. It comes from an interpretation of the Bible were a man spilled his seamen and was criticized, but I think he was criticized for his reasons for spilling his seamen rather than for the act itself (Genesis 38). The Church Fathers also taught against it for various reasons. People were often fined for sinning. I haven't looked much into the practice of self-chastising, but as far as I'm aware, it was not done because the body was seen as bad, and if it was, it would be something that was not taught in the Bible.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Talmud/bavakama8.html tinyE: Those people aren't suffering, they are dying; 140,000 of them in just a few hours. I don't think I want any part of a god that allows that and pawns it off on 'suffering'.
Sorry, I thought you were making a point about suffering rather than about death. Is there an acceptable rate of death that is compatible with a loving God, or are you against a loving God that allows any death?
tinyE: Oh sorry I just fell to pieces trying to imagine how these people felt about god being merciful and gracious.
MaximumBunny: I don't know why people try to understand the views of people who attempt to throw their deities into every life and event. Whatever deities are out there obviously aren't interested in getting a perfect Lemming score, they just want to complete the damn game. If people want to worship such a non-perfectionist then that's their thing. There is a niche for such Lets Plays. :)
Can you show that there is a different scenario where there would be more people who freely choose to enter into a saving relationship with God?
