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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 01, 2014
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Soyeong: "I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside." - Mitch Hedberg
They've actually done that in the horror movie ... What was it called ... VHS? There was a murderer who constantly looked like a recording error. Well, that one one of the short stories in the movie. The rubbish short story. Eh.
Posted February 01, 2014
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Krypsyn: Okay, so since there is no proof of Bigfoot, you hypothesize (i.e. propose) that there is no Bigfoot. Based on this proposition, you decide that you have an absolute lack of belief in the existence of Bigfoot. You do this with full knowledge that there is the possibility that your hypothesis, as improbable as it may be, might be disproven in the future. The fact that you admit that there is a possibility you might be wrong suggests that your lack of belief in Bigfoot is not totally absolute.
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Soyeong: "I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside." - Mitch Hedberg
He will be missed.
Man he was brilliant.
Posted February 01, 2014
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nadenitza: Hmm, Interesting scenario got me thinking...

Will a tribesman living in a remote area his entire life, with no theist beliefs whatsoever, form a "instinctive theist urge" through time similar to those in theist beliefs (like life after death, etc) , without ever having met someone religious or know the concept of religion whatsoever... that's pretty interesting, let's play mad scientists and strand people on a secluded island for the rest of their life, observing their behaviour :)
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pimpmonkey2382: A tribesman would most likely invent his own explanations.
Does that mean he will learn about the supernatural without being imposed by others?
Post edited February 01, 2014 by nadenitza
Posted February 01, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: A tribesman would most likely invent his own explanations.
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nadenitza: Does that mean he will learn about the supernatural without being imposed by others?
Maybe but it wouldn't be the same supernatural as the christians, muslims, etc. He'd probably create his own religion because he wouldn't know how else to explain it.
Posted February 01, 2014
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monkeydelarge: I just see no point in debating with Christians. And most of the atheists and Satan worshipers here have explained why Christianity is BS better than me. I have nothing to add, really.
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scampywiak: There's always a point in debating. It's the only true defense we have against fundamentalist thinking. Yeah, I know it's just a gaming site, but the more you can get a person questioning religious dogma, the better.
Well I guess, there is the chance, debating will make some Christians start to question their religion and eventually this will lead them to a more honest path.
Posted February 01, 2014
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nadenitza: Does that mean he will learn about the supernatural without being imposed by others?
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pimpmonkey2382: Maybe but it wouldn't be the same supernatural as the christians, muslims, etc. He'd probably create his own religion because he wouldn't know how else to explain it.
Well i think it's safe to say it's possible, the religion itself doesn't matter really, given there are medieval tribes in history that had many gods, someone sometime must have came to some supernatural conclusion without being imposed by others - and starting spreading it... hmm

This is pretty interesting because it actually means we are (or at least some of us) genetically dispositioned to believe in the supernatural, if we can come to a supernatural conclusion by our selfs. Does that mean our genes are prone to theism, or more specifically, does that mean that if we are destined to believe in something supernatural in the future, are we actually theists to begin with? If the medieval guy came to the supernatural conclusion, was it just a blind luck or does it mean something more... gatdaymn... my mind starts to hurt...
Post edited February 01, 2014 by nadenitza
Posted February 01, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Maybe but it wouldn't be the same supernatural as the christians, muslims, etc. He'd probably create his own religion because he wouldn't know how else to explain it.
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nadenitza: Well i think it's safe to say it's possible, the religion itself doesn't matter really, given there are medieval tribes in history that had many gods, someone sometime must have came to some supernatural conclusion without being imposed by others - and starting spreading it... hmm

This is pretty interesting because it actually means we are (or at least some of us) genetically dispositioned to believe in the supernatural, if we can come to a supernatural conclusion by our selfs. Does that mean our genes are prone to theism, or more specifically, does that mean that if we are destined to believe in something supernatural in the future, are we actually theists to begin with? If the medieval guy came to the supernatural conclusion, was it just a blind luck or does it mean something more... gatdaymn... my mind starts to hurt...
No, it's just when you know no better, if you don't know how to experiment you'll make outrageous claims that cannot be backed up by fact.
Posted February 01, 2014
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nadenitza: Will a tribesman living in a remote area his entire life, with no theist beliefs whatsoever, form a "instinctive theist urge" through time similar to those in theist beliefs (like life after death, etc) , without ever having met someone religious or know the concept of religion whatsoever... that's pretty interesting, let's play mad scientists and strand people on a secluded island for the rest of their life, observing their behaviour :)
You know, "tribesman" implies that the individual belongs to a certain social group with a certain set of beliefs and stuff so that doesn't really make any sense.

As for the experiment, I predict that most likely a person who hasn't been subject to any prior indoctrination will turn out animist.
Posted February 01, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: This is going to be a drunken rambling, so don't expect serious debate, this is a thought rather than a debate.

Say those, that think the stories in the bible as true events and actually happened as the bible says them.

The great flood, is a worse genocide than both nazi germany and stalin's russia combined. Yet those who believe the bible glorify it as a good thing. Hitler and Stalin got off way too easy for their crimes, yet the religious glorify "god" when he kills off the entire world in one swoop except for two people. As a person who is relatively peaceful. Never been in even a fist fight in school, I cannot and would not condone the killing of the entire planet because a holy book said that it was needed. Stalin and Hitler got off easy than what I think should have been done to them. Yet god gets a free pass if you believe the flood story and sodom and gamorah. Where do the religious draw the line on genocide, and how can any genocide be good even if their old man in the sky commanded it. Let alone eternal torture in the afterlife.
A genocide is when someone tries to target a group of people for execution because of their ethnicity. I hope that you are able to tell the difference between that and judging that someone deserves the death penalty because of their actions.
Posted February 01, 2014
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nadenitza: Well i think it's safe to say it's possible, the religion itself doesn't matter really, given there are medieval tribes in history that had many gods, someone sometime must have came to some supernatural conclusion without being imposed by others - and starting spreading it... hmm

This is pretty interesting because it actually means we are (or at least some of us) genetically dispositioned to believe in the supernatural, if we can come to a supernatural conclusion by our selfs. Does that mean our genes are prone to theism, or more specifically, does that mean that if we are destined to believe in something supernatural in the future, are we are actually theists to begin with? If the medieval guy came to the supernatural conclusion, was it just a blind luck or does it mean something more... gatdaymn... my mind starts to hurt...
The explanation is quite simple, actually. We are curious, seek answers, and have a lot of imagination. The processes which cause most of stuff like rains, lightening etc. are not instantly apparent and are not easily comprehended without a lot of abstraction and understanding of a huge amount of related problems, so instead, people start thinking in terms of what they know. What they do know is their own way of life, and their surroundings - so people start relating to that. They know that by following a certain procedure, they can create fire or forge a sword in more advanced societies, so obviously, there has to be something, much more powerful than them, what is causing all of these things to happen. And there you have it, gods are quite simply the easiest way to explain a problem - and all people are alike in how they think, so they will all eventually come to the same conclusion. Not because they would be 'genetically engineered to believe in gods', but because gods are the most straightforward, most comprehensible and laziest way to explain how the world around them works.
Posted February 01, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: The things I really and seriously respect judaism for. is jews don't want nor try to convert me nor do they try to make their religious views the law in the US.
If Christianity is true, then the most important decision you can make in this life is to follow Christ. If you really thought someone was about to drive off of a cliff, then the most loving think you could do would be to try to get them to stop and turn around.
Posted February 01, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Maybe but it wouldn't be the same supernatural as the christians, muslims, etc. He'd probably create his own religion because he wouldn't know how else to explain it.
Religion is organized spirituality. He would come up with beliefs of his own but it wouldn't become a religion unless there were a whole group of people sharing these beliefs and handing them down to the next generation.
Posted February 01, 2014
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Soyeong: If Christianity is true, then the most important decision you can make in this life is to follow Christ. If you really thought someone was about to drive off of a cliff, then the most loving think you could do would be to try to get them to stop and turn around.
I know we're running a bit of a circle here, but I have the same basis for my beliefs as the other guy. I consider a person trying to change my beliefs even in spite of voicing my wish for him to not do so incredibly inpolite and, quite frankly, insulting. Comparison to the car accident is not quite the same thing, because you can actually offer me empirical evidence of high chances of me dying or severely hurting myself, which is where that stops being a word against a word.
Post edited February 01, 2014 by Fenixp
Posted February 01, 2014
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MaximumBunny: I can presume what you think because you're not saying anything other than the usual Christianized crap. But you keep on avoiding the questions and I had thought you were the thinking type...but you're just a protestant/evangelical. Disappointing.

So I'll stop at the wall you've put up. Good luck combating the atheists and whatever simple problems you enjoy turning into mole hills! :)
I didn't reply to the speculation because I don't see how that's useful. I think it's very important to try to understand the Bible through the lens of how the early Jewish believers understood it. I do not consider myself to hold typical Christian beliefs in that regard.
Post edited February 01, 2014 by Soyeong
Posted February 01, 2014
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nadenitza: Well i think it's safe to say it's possible, the religion itself doesn't matter really, given there are medieval tribes in history that had many gods, someone sometime must have came to some supernatural conclusion without being imposed by others - and starting spreading it... hmm

This is pretty interesting because it actually means we are (or at least some of us) genetically dispositioned to believe in the supernatural, if we can come to a supernatural conclusion by our selfs. Does that mean our genes are prone to theism, or more specifically, does that mean that if we are destined to believe in something supernatural in the future, are we are actually theists to begin with? If the medieval guy came to the supernatural conclusion, was it just a blind luck or does it mean something more... gatdaymn... my mind starts to hurt...
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Fenixp: The explanation is quite simple, actually. We are curious, seek answers, and have a lot of imagination. The processes which cause most of stuff like rains, lightening etc. are not instantly apparent and are not easily comprehended without a lot of abstraction and understanding of a huge amount of related problems, so instead, people start thinking in terms of what they know. What they do know is their own way of life, and their surroundings - so people start relating to that. They know that by following a certain procedure, they can create fire or forge a sword in more advanced societies, so obviously, there has to be something, much more powerful than them, what is causing all of these things to happen. And there you have it, gods are quite simply the easiest way to explain a problem - and all people are alike in how they think, so they will all eventually come to the same conclusion. Not because they would be 'genetically engineered to believe in gods', but because gods are the most straightforward, most comprehensible and laziest way to explain how the world around them works.
That's a good reply, put's some things in perspective ;)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)