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SimonG: I thought real money AH items were excluded from the ranking stuff?
I don't really know, I'm not talking about ranking per se - PvP is definitely not divided into 'real money AH' and 'normal,' and about the brick wall that people suddenly hit when getting into the last difficulty mode. Now that's just speculation on my part, but it's definitely going to get more people throw money at Blizzard because they want to continue playing their game. I just see the real-money auction house to be all-round a bad decision and a dangerous precedent, that applies to defending the always-online DRM (that has been massively frowned upon when EA did it with CnC 4 and in base it was mostly the same thing, altho not as polished)
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Fenixp: ...
No argument here. If they wanted, they would have probably been able to implement LAN (for SC2, as example), maybe not providing full ranked matches access, but still, it would have been usable for custom matches / games / mods / whatever.
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SimonG: ...
There is no ranked play in Diablo 3 yet. That will come with Patch 1.1, meaning soon (tm), judging by Blizzard's definition of time.

For the moment, the game is balanced for PvE, for which, pay-to-win doesn't exist, as some people keep saying. It certainly does make the game easier, because, seriously, I wouldn't have played the game if the AH didn't exist (the gold-based one), beyond the first one or two difficulties. To hell with doing the same content over and over again just for that 1 in a million chance item to drop. :)

When PvP is introduced, similarly to WoW, all classes will be pre-built, thus users' items that they acquired or bought won't have an effect (and everything will go down to pure skill).

EDIT: It would be wonderful if they introduce a RMAH for WoW, oh boy, I would be making so much money! :)
Post edited October 27, 2012 by Elenarie
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keeveek: We'll see. If it is as you say, Diablo 3 community should shrink pretty fast. But if most people don't care about the ladder and play only with friends, it won't matter.
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Fenixp: Why would it shrink and why would it not shrinking make officially endorsed 'pay to win' a good thing in any way imaginable?
Because a company is made to earn money. If their model works and earns money, it's good. If majority of D3 players that will still be in the game would want to pay for in game items - it's good for them and it's good for Blizz.

If you don't like it - pick another game. (I'd recommend League of Legends :P)
Post edited October 27, 2012 by keeveek
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keeveek: If you don't like it - pick another game.
I did. Does that mean I have no say in the matter?
I can support old DRM style, such the wheel from Monkey Island, the encoded text from Loom...those DRM where even artistic, I liked them, DRM itself was an original piece of art with every game.

I will not pay ever for a game using any sort of online DRM...I see it as a scam in the worst case and as an impediment for the legal customer who just want to play in the best case. I will not participate with my money in making them think I agree with that...because I dont and I can't.
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Bluedreams: I see it as a scam
I find this very funny and stupid belief. I mean, seriously, you see the details of the agreement before you license a game. It states that you need an online account with X service, and a constant internet connection with it. Everything is layered out there.

How can it be a scam when they give you the details, and you just agree or disagree with it. Its a yes / no question, not a freaking search for who built the pyramids. People, seriously, come on! :/
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Bluedreams: I see it as a scam
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Elenarie: I find this very funny and stupid belief. I mean, seriously, you see the details of the agreement before you license a game. It states that you need an online account with X service, and a constant internet connection with it. Everything is layered out there.

How can it be a scam when they give you the details, and you just agree or disagree with it. Its a yes / no question, not a freaking search for who built the pyramids. People, seriously, come on! :/
Oh you can see it? online stores where I buy games does not state it...I need to research by myself as there is no way to know what kind of stuff the game will require. I dont know where you buy, but looks like the shops you use are much better than the ones I do...and tried several.

Came to my mind the advance from the new Sim City, a game I loved...I bet in the online stores nor the game review (at least those I read) there will be no mention to the Origin requeriment and their dark privacy policy.
Post edited October 27, 2012 by Bluedreams
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Elenarie: For the moment, the game is balanced for PvE, for which, pay-to-win doesn't exist, as some people keep saying. It certainly does make the game easier, because, seriously, I wouldn't have played the game if the AH didn't exist (the gold-based one), beyond the first one or two difficulties. To hell with doing the same content over and over again just for that 1 in a million chance item to drop. :)
I would say that it's kind of prove that the game is "not" balanced for PvE.

Actually the peoples I know in real life who bought the game didn't complain much about the DRM but all complained a lot (an some were pretty pissed/disappointed) that, after some time, (in higher difficulty level) skill was mostly meaningless, all that counted was to have "that" equipments that improved your stats enough to be able to survive more than five seconds. (that is until Blizzard next patch the game changing monster or boss stats/attacks forcing you to find other equipments)

And in the end it was "pay to win"-like as you choices were basically : grind for billions of years until you have that one chance to get good enough equipment, grind for a little less to have enough gold to afford the often ridiculous prices of the AH or just buy said equipment with real money and spare yourself days of killing the same monster in loop.
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Bluedreams: Oh you can see it? online stores where I buy games does not state it...I need to research by myself as there is no way to know what kind of stuff the game will require. I dont know where you buy, but looks like the shops you use are much better than the ones I do...and tried several.
You should call your store a scaming business, not the Diablo 3 devs/pubs. Also, change the store?
*sits on sidelines, grabs some popcorn*
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Bluedreams: Oh you can see it? online stores where I buy games does not state it...I need to research by myself as there is no way to know what kind of stuff the game will require. I dont know where you buy, but looks like the shops you use are much better than the ones I do...and tried several.
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keeveek: You should call your store a scaming business, not the Diablo 3 devs/pubs. Also, change the store?
Sorry was not thinking in Diablo 3...this post title is "history of DRM", so my post was related to the old DRM systems and that. Diablo 3 was clear as water and I can even understand the persistent online requeriment to play, as it is online always.
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Bluedreams: Sorry was not thinking in Diablo 3...this post title is "history of DRM", so my post was related to the old DRM systems and that. Diablo 3 was clear as water and I can even understand the persistent online requeriment to play, as it is online always.
Ok. But know that, every store should state about copy protection. IT's part of the product. You may return it to the store without any other reason that saying "it didn't state it was starforce protected, gimme my monies back" ;-)

At least in Poland, if you are not informed about some qualities of the product and you think it doesn't have any DRM (because it's not stated anywhere), you should be able to return it and get a refund.
Post edited October 27, 2012 by keeveek
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Bluedreams: Sorry was not thinking in Diablo 3...this post title is "history of DRM", so my post was related to the old DRM systems and that. Diablo 3 was clear as water and I can even understand the persistent online requeriment to play, as it is online always.
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keeveek: Ok. But know that, every store should state about copy protection. IT's part of the product. You may return it to the store without any other reason that saying "it didn't state it was starforce protected, gimme my monies back" ;-)
I agree with that 100%, It should be also stated in the online reviews...I think it is important.
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Gersen: ...
How's the game NOT balanced for PvE. Seriously, have you even played it? Are we talking about the same meaning of balance?

Also, if the AH didn't exist, your only option would be to farm / grind for items for billion years. Its a pure convenience for those that don't have the time. NOTHING is FORCING you to use it. Seriously, why trash talk other people because they don't have YEARS to spend, like the way you to? :/
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Bluedreams: ...
Most of them do, though. Steam, Battle.net, GamersGate, GOG clearly state what kind of DRM a game uses... at least for the games I've been interested in.

If a store didn't mention the DRM in their FAQ or on the games' pages, then ask for a refund or something similar (as long as the agreement / law allows it).
Post edited October 27, 2012 by Elenarie
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Elenarie: How's the game NOT balanced for PvE. Seriously, have you even played it? Are we talking about the same meaning of balance?

Also, if the AH didn't exist, your only option would be to farm / grind for items for billion years. Its a pure convenience for those that don't have the time. NOTHING is FORCING you to use it. Seriously, why trash talk other people because they don't have YEARS to spend, like the way you to? :/
Please spare me the fanboy scene.

If a games forces you, if you want to finish/play it in higher difficulty, to either grind for ridiculous amount of time or buy weapons/equipments on a auction house, it's not what I call "balanced". (It's something I would personally call artificially increasing gameplay duration but that's another subject)

I haven't played it and honestly I don't care, it's just that the main complain I keep hearing from peoples I know who played the game (and most of them who were fans of D2) is that the game is made in a way that it rewards more the time and money (be it real or virtual) you spend in the AH than your actual skill.
Post edited October 27, 2012 by Gersen