Anyone know of some good 4x games I can get into? I'm looking for more a Total War series feel; the Civ series isn't my favorite, though I have a healthy appreciation of it. Generally what I would like is an AI that behaves human-like...difficult and challenging, without being a pain train where all the AI factions have at you. Thanks for your suggestions!

It is a shame that GOG doesn't have Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (especially with the Alien CrossFire Add-on pack). That game is incredible... and hard to find.

So the Master of Orion pack is great ... both Master of Orion 1 and 2 are considered to be classics, deservedly so, of the 4X genre and very influential especially in the 4X space genre. The same devs also made a fantasy setting version, Master of Magic which gets very, very good reviews. The strategic map and tactical combat are both turn-based in all three games. Master of Orion 1&2 in particular are must haves for 4X strategy lovers and are truly great games. Do not get Master of Orion 3.

Castles II is almost like the granddaddy to Medieval: Total War. However, it does currently have a bug whereby people have trouble loading from saved games. That said, it is still a great game and well worth checking out. Lords of the Realm is another highly rated medieval 4X game by the famous-for-city-builders studio Impressions. Like the Total War series, it features a turn-based strategy map and real-time tactical map. Castles II is actually real-time on both but never feels hurried (and you can control the pace of time on the strategic map). I've not played Lords of the Realm myself but I've heard nothing but good things. Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3 get good reviews though I don't know much about them personally.

Knights of Honor is over at Steam. The A.I isn't spectacular but still a nice game.

Here on GOG you should definitely check out Lords of the Realm 2. The battles are primitive but still fun and as a whole the game is very addictive. Cheap as chips too.

One that I forgot ... I've bought it, haven't tried it yet is Haegomonia - space 4X-RTS (it may be lighter on the 4X part than say a Civ game and more in line with Total War). Seems interesting.

I wouldn't really classify Haegemonia as a 4xRTS. The "exploit" part is fairly limited, "explore" is limited to a few systems within a given mission and the "exterminate" part suffers from the limited number of units you're allowed to have at the same time. The technology tree is not that enticing either as you're not allowed many paths of development. It's a decent game but not the type of game you coming back to...

Maybe not that lighter but the balance is different. In Haegemonia, you basically go through a succession of missions. Whatever effort you've made to exploit / explore is limited to your mission or, in the best cases, to a succession of 2-3 missions. Exploit means a limited number of developments to your planets, with little impact on your production, and to mining ore from asteroids. And the mission seetings impose you clear limits : your ennemies are set and you don't have alternative diplomatic options.

Total war is not a full RTS either, but it gives a lot more freedom of movement. You have a full map at your disposal and it's up to you to favour an option or another. City / fortresses development may be limited but has an impact on what you can produce and on the size of your army. There are dimplomatic options, although this is not the best aspect of that franchise. So you can eventually craft a personnal way of playing these games and they offer a lot of re-playability.

First I'd like to thank everyone for posting, I will have to take a look at some of these. But Phc70006, you're totally right, although diplomacy has been present in all of the Total War games, there has never been quite the concentration on the diplomacy aspect, which in later iterations gets better, but is simply not that great. What I do admire the Total War series for is the combat which feels exciting, instead of just stacking a bunch of units in a single hex like the Civ series. What puzzles me is why this subgenre has not had more games from big publishers? Sometimes soon I want a current game where the battles have the thrill and the strategy needed from the Total War series, but a more intuitive diplomatic system (or one that is realistic--as Total War games have hardest settings have allies that think nothing of the treaty you made with them 2 turns ago), say from the Civ series. But there seem to be some great gems I will pick up in the mean time. Has anyone played King Arthur: the Roleplaying Game? I've heard it was 4x-ish and I bought recently from Steam, but have yet to try it.

Are the Total War games even 4x? I always thought 4x was kinda boardgame style strategy like Heroes of Might & Magic, Civ etc... Total war feels more like a turn based strategy with realtime elements.
Just wondering if 4x is really what you're after :). I love the mix the Total War series has, though i know a few people who never play the RTS side of it and just play the map, auto-resolving battles but I've never thought of it as a 4x game.

The gaming industry often prefers to play "safe bets" and to clone ad nauseam the successful blockbusters. In a sense, that's still a very immature business model, with a lot of emphasis on short term sales, not on replayability. I'm old enough to remember how Shogun TW looked alien to some. And how fans of the franchise felt puzzled by the Sega take-over.


King Arthur and the King's crusade are both very good alternatives. Sufficiently different to actually bring something more in terms of playability.

Aye Rome Total War is one of my favorites. I wasn't saying Rome was full RTS - it is after all turn based on the strategic map! :)

Sounds like the Haegamonia is like Homeworld with more strategic options thrown-in. I've found most RTS games mostly to be really at their heart RTT or RTO - tactical or operational and I suppose Haegomonia would therefore be a real-time operational game. I've heard good things about King Arthur. Another one you might want to look into is Europa Universalis III - my roommate had that, it looked good.

Well Total War is then indeed like many board games. Some wargames I've played (wargames with a physical not virtual map that is) even had a dual tactical and strategic component to them. Of course they were turn-based in both, but the precedent is there. :) I suppose if I were to think of wargames with similar play-style to Rome, I'd have to go with The Conquerors - which was Alexander/Rome and almost exactly like Rome: Total War, but a board game (unfortunately I cannot find references to it online only a new board game with a similar name & theme but it certainly isn't older game I was thinking of).

As for specifically 4X, it's true genres can be a bit fuzzy. Total War does indeed share a lot of aspects with 4X games though it certainly isn't classically 4X, but I would say it shares enough with the genre that it counts. I suppose it really depends on whether or not you consider strategic wargames on a computer to be similar enough to 4X games to count as the same genre.

Well, no, not fully. There are things in Haegemonia you won't find in Homeworld ( colony building ) but a lot of things are lacking. The "fleets" you command in Haegemonia are composed of a handful of ships, and the amount of control you exercise is basically pointing a direction and basic orders. Forget about formations or about using hit and run tactics , forget capture , forget all the subtilities that made Homeworld so loveable.


Do you mean this : http://boardgamegeek.com/image/68104/the-conquerors ?

Got it ... I would say then it's definitely an RTO given your description. In a real time operational game, you're more concerned with the strategic operations of your local sector. So it's strategic more than tactical since you don't control the tactics of the ships, but neither are you controlling the grand strategy of the entire war - just your local area. Or perhaps I should just play the dang game, then comment on it once I actually know what I'm talking about. :P

Yup that looks like it. I guess my search wasn't very thorough. :) Strange I thought I even checked that site, I must have just missed it.

I remembered the game ( Conquerors : Rome - Macedon ) and by whom it was published (spi) . ( Somehow, my personnal interest in Roman and Greek history comes from that game and from Avalon Hill's "the republic of Rome - Res Publica".... ouch that was 25 years ago) . And it's true that Total war rome + Alexander recretes quite well that board game.

I guess If one simply search on the name, the information is burried under the content related to GMT's game.