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IanM: ... I don't want auto patches either, I want games that are finished and working 100% before they are sold ...
As a software developer i can tell you that such a piece of software just does not exists. True one can come very close (see NASA). And yes today things have gone out of hand and games get released before they are finished & developers get measly salaries, marketing & shareholder profit wastes millions, but ultimately it comes down to cost:

Either pay up or shut up.

Since bugfixing/testing/balancing takes >80% of the time, if you want a nearly bug free games we're likely talking triple digit retail prices... Plus way longer release cycles and more linear games with less choices. Because with choice the testing cost rises exponentially. True some games are nearly bug-free but apart from obvious offenders (e.g. rushed releases) i'd wager it's just plain luck.

There's a reason there is no indie game studio doing AAA games (especially graphics & predefined choices are expensive). Take shadowrun returns for example. Lovely graphics, nice story, awesome gameplay. But it's short, no voiceover, linear, static, graphics are 10 years behind state of the art... And for $20 it's 1/5-1/10 the length of Origin/MassEffect/BaldursGate... So these should have retailed for $100-200!!!!
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bernstein82: As a software developer i can tell you that such a piece of software just does not exists. True one can come very close (see NASA). And yes today things have gone out of hand and games get released before they are finished & developers get measly salaries, marketing & shareholder profit wastes millions, but ultimately it comes down to cost:
...
I'm a software engineer as well and pretty much agree with everything you just said for the most part, although NASA did have a Mars probe go spinning off into space due to software bugs (confusion between miles and kilometres in software IIRC). The days of writing bug free software or even remotely close to bug free software out the get go are long behind us with the complexity of the software these days, and the interactions it has with other software, pre-baked libraries and other complexities. Not to mention the diverse array of video hardware and other hardware, their drivers that constantly change, etc. If anything, software bugs being present is practically a guarantee these days.

I do however think it is reasonable for games to be well tested under reasonable quality assurance infrastructure and have the known critical bugs fixed before release and some modicum of quality control. Some of the games don't seem like they've had any QA though sadly, or the game is released far ahead of being ready. Takedown Red Sabre is a good example of being obviously not finished and rushed out the door.

But bug-free software beyond a certain size and capability of application is just a pipe dream without tremendous expense and development time and resource commitment for sure.
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Part 38
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skeletonbow: I do however think it is reasonable for games to be well tested under reasonable quality assurance infrastructure and have the known critical bugs fixed before release and some modicum of quality control. Some of the games don't seem like they've had any QA though sadly, or the game is released far ahead of being ready. Takedown Red Sabre is a good example of being obviously not finished and rushed out the door.
Ya it make you wish for the days 15 or so years ago when they'd delay launches to make sure that the games were more or less done. Bioware and Blizzard used to be famous of this. Hell I think Neverwinter Nights came out two years behind schedule or something like that. it even lead to this comic
Yeah, Blizzard's games have been notoriously stable in my experiences.
Well, I've been playing a game I bought, (Yes PLAYING GAME ;-p) Space Quest 1, it is the EGA version which is cool with me. I have this one and the VGA version as well. I am at the sand skimmer part where you have to guide the skimmer past the rocks. I had a little trouble with it years back when I first played the game, but I guess in my advanced age I am now having lots o trouble with it. So, I thought I would ask my daughter (COD Player who is pretty good at it) with the good hand eye coordination to go through it for me. She just gave up even after trying it on the slow speed. "I can't do it dad!" Me, "Why not?" Her, "It's too hard!" Do what???!! Now I don't feel so bad about having a hard time doing it! lol
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txnca: Well, I've been playing a game I bought, (Yes PLAYING GAME ;-p) Space Quest 1, it is the EGA version which is cool with me. I have this one and the VGA version as well. I am at the sand skimmer part where you have to guide the skimmer past the rocks. I had a little trouble with it years back when I first played the game, but I guess in my advanced age I am now having lots o trouble with it. So, I thought I would ask my daughter (COD Player who is pretty good at it) with the good hand eye coordination to go through it for me. She just gave up even after trying it on the slow speed. "I can't do it dad!" Me, "Why not?" Her, "It's too hard!" Do what???!! Now I don't feel so bad about having a hard time doing it! lol
for the sand skimmer, the easiest thing to do is to crank the game's speed down to "slow" and then use that to get yourself through.

to get that to happen, hit "escape" - depending on which version of the game it is. if it's a new version of the game, you'll get a menu and one of the items on that should be the game speed. use that to set it to slow.

if you don't have that version of the game, /before/ you get onto the skimmer, simply type "slow" into the command area and everything will slow down for you. when you're done with that sequence, type "normal" [i believe that's the right command - but i could be wrong. it might be "fast"] to speed your guy back up again.

hope this helps.

edited to add: i was pretty sure i actually /did/ this on my let's play of the game, and couldn't find it. skip to about 11:20 for zero spoilers. at the end, i reset the speed to "normal" at 16:40 again. here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAAZzCTYywY&list=PL58B9B47A0FE9380A&index=5
Post edited June 22, 2014 by lostwolfe
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lostwolfe: for the sand skimmer, the easiest thing to do is to crank the game's speed down to "slow" and then use that to get yourself through.

to get that to happen, hit "escape" - depending on which version of the game it is. if it's a new version of the game, you'll get a menu and one of the items on that should be the game speed. use that to set it to slow.

if you don't have that version of the game, /before/ you get onto the skimmer, simply type "slow" into the command area and everything will slow down for you. when you're done with that sequence, type "normal" [i believe that's the right command - but i could be wrong. it might be "fast"] to speed your guy back up again.

hope this helps.

edited to add: i was pretty sure i actually /did/ this on my let's play of the game, and couldn't find it. skip to about 11:20 for zero spoilers. at the end, i reset the speed to "normal" at 16:40 again. here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAAZzCTYywY&list=PL58B9B47A0FE9380A&index=5
This is very useful, thanks a lot ;-)

I looked at your YouTube page and saw that you've played Evoland. What did you think of it? It came up early in the sale and I didn't get it, but if it comes around again I think I might. That retro look really appeals, and the game looks interesting.
Post edited June 22, 2014 by Stilton
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Stilton: This is very useful, thanks a lot ;-)

I looked at your YouTube page and saw that you've played Evoland. What did you think of it? It came up early in the sale and I didn't get it, but if it comes around again I think I might. That retro look really appeals, and the game looks interesting.
Leroux's review of the game is close to my personal opinion.
I'm hoping the deals come around again at the end of the sale period. Have to be up early and Bards Tale isn't due for a while. It was bad enough with the Insomnia sale

Night folks
Huzzah! Picked up Costume Quest and I'm done for now, though I'll probably keep monitoring the sale in case anything unusual pops up. 15 games I probably won't have time for, but I'll enjoy having them anyway! Including two that are potential gifts.

Magrunner: Dark Pulse, Of course.

Costume Quest
7th Guest
11th Hour
Worms United
Worms 2
Postal 2 Complete
Sir, You Are Being Hunted
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Oddworld: Abe's Exodus
Another World 20th Anniversery Edition
Knock-Knock!
Unholy Heights

Gift Codes for:
Painkiller Black Edition
Sang-Froid: Tales of Werewolves


I -MIGHT- pick up something else, but I'm not sure what I'd get. Shadowrun maybe? Nah. I think I'm good for now.
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Stilton: This is very useful, thanks a lot ;-)

I looked at your YouTube page and saw that you've played Evoland. What did you think of it? It came up early in the sale and I didn't get it, but if it comes around again I think I might. That retro look really appeals, and the game looks interesting.
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Grargar: Leroux's review of the game is close to my personal opinion.
That was a real eye-opener, thanks. If it does appear again I'll let it pass. Even at these low prices a letdown still smarts.
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Stilton: This is very useful, thanks a lot ;-)

I looked at your YouTube page and saw that you've played Evoland. What did you think of it? It came up early in the sale and I didn't get it, but if it comes around again I think I might. That retro look really appeals, and the game looks interesting.
no problem. glad to help. there's lots of "little things" like that in sierra games that were pointed out in the original manuals, but then sometimes just glossed over when they repackaged them.

as for evoland. played it last year. and then figured, well. it's in the flash sale, i may as well collect it here. it's been a game i've been meaning to show off for /ages/ because it meshes so well with some of what i'm all about, which is the history of gaming.

evoland is fun - if short. it's neat in that it traces sort of the 8-16 bit arc of zelda-style/final fantasy style gaming [with a little bit of playstation one-ness in there for good measure.]

if you're into any of that at all, then evoland will be a great, great palate cleanser if you've been playing anything particularly heavy and plot-based. plus, it's not a very long game. you could - ostensiably - get through it in a sitting or two. [provided those sittings are about three hours each.]

i believe you'll have fun. that first video i posted really /is/ indicative of what it's like to play. and if you enjoyed that, you'll have a blast.

thankyou for watching the videos, by the by. i appreciate it very much.
Post edited June 22, 2014 by lostwolfe
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Stilton: This is very useful, thanks a lot ;-)

I looked at your YouTube page and saw that you've played Evoland. What did you think of it? It came up early in the sale and I didn't get it, but if it comes around again I think I might. That retro look really appeals, and the game looks interesting.
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lostwolfe: no problem. glad to help. there's lots of "little things" like that in sierra games that were pointed out in the original manuals, but then sometimes just glossed over when they repackaged them.

as for evoland. played it last year. and then figured, well. it's in the flash sale, i may as well collect it here. it's been a game i've been meaning to show off for /ages/ because it meshes so well with some of what i'm all about, which is the history of gaming.

evoland is fun - if short. it's neat in that it traces sort of the 8-16 bit arc of zelda-style/final fantasy style gaming [with a little bit of playstation one-ness in there for good measure.]

if you're into any of that at all, then evoland will be a great, great palate cleanser if you've been playing anything particularly heavy and plot-based. plus, it's not a very long game. you could - ostensiably - get through it in a sitting or two. [provided those sittings are about three hours each.]

i believe you'll have fun. that first video i posted really /is/ indicative of what it's like to play. and if you enjoyed that, you'll have a blast.

thankyou for watching the videos, by the by. i appreciate it very much.
Thank you for your complete response. Things are getting interesting now: having discovered other people's disappointments with the title and your own pleasure with it I'm of two minds as to which way to go. Gut instinct is going to be my best guide, I feel (that ephemeral blend of price/looks/game intent/game content/how I feel at the moment my finger hovers over the Buy Now button/what colour my underwear is...)

What you say I like, having been initiated into the world of computer gaming by an old grey PlayStation 1 and a certain fully proportioned archeologist with a talent for gymnastics, and I'm finding a growing interest in gaming history, too. I did rather like the first part of your review/walkthrough (I didn't watch much, preferring to 'discover' the game myself): the game had an appeal that, well, appealed.

I think it was $2.99 first time round, less than £2.00 in UK currency and frankly a pittance for the work that went into it. Its likely I'll give it a go and find out for myself ;-)

Its also nice to put a 'voice' to the avatar of one of GOG's devoted followers, too ;-)

Keep making the videos and I'll keep watching them.
Post edited June 22, 2014 by Stilton
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Stilton: Thank you for your complete response. Things are getting interesting now: having discovered other people's disappointments with the title and your own pleasure with it I'm of two minds as to which way to go. Gut instinct is going to be my best guide, I feel (that ephemeral blend of price/looks/game intent/game content/how I feel at the moment my finger hovers over the Buy Now button/what colour my underwear is...)

What you say I like, having been initiated into the world of computer gaming by an old grey PlayStation 1 and a certain fully proportioned archeologist with a talent for gymnastics, and I'm finding a growing interest in gaming history, too. I did rather like the first part of your review/walkthrough (I didn't watch much, preferring to 'discover' the game myself): the game had an appeal that, well, appealed.

I think it was $2.99 first time round, less than £2.00 in UK currency and frankly a pittance for the work that went into it. Its likely I'll give it a go and find out for myself ;-)

Its also nice to put a 'voice' to the avatar of one of GOG's devoted followers, too ;-)

Keep making the videos and I'll keep watching them.
my take on evoland - with other people - is that it's hit or miss. the things i see in it as historical artefacts and interesting are things that frustrate other people. i do have issues with the game itself [those random battles can be a bit much - and i will eventually start cutting them] - the music itself can get a bit grating [again, i'm planning on muting the music for at least some of the playthrough as a result.] - but much of it is all just parts of what made gaming what it was back then.

i went back and read that review, and while everything there is accurate, this - i feel is one of those few games that people either love or hate. and if they love it, it's a very strong affectionate sort of love for it. if they hate it, they hate it with an all-consuming passion. "this was silly! i lost x hours of my life to it! etc."

it's all good. all opinions are valid.

i do appreciate your support of my videos. i plan to be making them for a while. at least until i've gotten through the entire sierra quest catalogue. [that's my /very/ big plan.]