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After Europe destroyed itself, no one has done a better job of rebuilding Europe than Europe. Congratulations Europe for fixing part of the mess you created.
Post edited October 12, 2012 by stoicsentry
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keeveek: And you're not bothered by the fact Germany France and UK are the only "upkeepers" right now? That poorer countries simply live on expense of yours? That German folks could live much better if they didn't have to 'save Greece'?
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Psyringe: I don't know SimonG's answer, but personally I'm not at all bothered by the things you mention, because the argument that Germans could live "better" if they didn't have to "save Greece" is rubbish. It's an incredibly short-sighted way of thinking. Yes, the current economic situation is stressful. Yes, Germany would have more money for itself if it didn't pump so much into the EU and (currently) specifically Greece. But whatever good that might do, they long-term negative effects would be _much_ worse. There isn't any alternative to the EU if you want a future in which the people still have power. Lots of people seem to think that they'd have _more_ power if they'd be "on their own", each country for itself, but that's an illusion. In reality, the biggest threat to people's well-being does not originate from political institutions, it originates from unchecked corporations who can render the individual states' legislations meaningless by playing them against each other. A strong EU is the best weapon that citizens could possibly have against that. Look at it this way: There is the political world, where people actually have power, by voting for their government. Then there is the economical world, where people have very little power - apart from their ability to go on strike, all the power that they _do_ have is due to legislation provided in the political world. Now, during the past few decades, the economical world has become globalized and hyper-mobile, while the political world still stayed mostly fractioned. The result is that global corporations can easily play countries against each other. The countries' administrations are incapable of keeping them in check because even if _one_ country issues some legislation that improves the rights of the people, the biggest corporations will just move on to the next country - so, instead of improving the situation of the workers, the administration has in fact only raised unemployment. The only viable remedy to this situation is to let the political institutions keep up with the economical ones. A unified EU with a strong, unified legislation can do far more for its citizens than any individual country could. The EU is by far the best chance to secure a good future for our kids, squandering that chance would be inexcusable.
I've lived all over the world and can honestly say the EU countries have better human rights, better social services, better freedom of speech, work harder towards compromise and true world peace than any other nation or group of nations on the planet.

When I look at the lifestyles many Europeans have compared to the rest of the world, they may not be glitzy, glamorous and involve humongous houses and expensive cars, but in most European countries people have good educational systems, excellent social services, their healthcare is taken care of, they can easily put food on the table and their pensions are secure.

If I was forced to make a choice of only one place to live, instead of the living-in-various-places lifestyle I now have, it would be an EU country without a doubt. There's simply nowhere better in my opinion.
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stoicsentry: After Europe destroyed itself, no one has done a better job of rebuilding Europe than Europe. Congratulations Europe for fixing part of the mess you created.
Actually, Germany had a lot of help from some country abroad.... ;-)
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Psyringe: I don't know SimonG's answer ...
As long as it isn't about Steam, I can pretty much agree with that brain. ;-)

Germany is probably the country that profited most from the EU.
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bazilisek: Well, we are. Slovaks, not so much :)
Hey, does that mean we can keep Kafka now?
Post edited October 12, 2012 by SimonG
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SimonG: ] As long as it isn't about Steam, I can pretty much agree with that brain. ;-) Germany is probably the country that profited most from the EU.
Especially when Greek coasts are all German now, right? :D
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SimonG: ] As long as it isn't about Steam, I can pretty much agree with that brain. ;-) Germany is probably the country that profited most from the EU.
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keeveek: Especially when Greek coasts are all German now, right? :D
I fairly certain they didn't bother reading the fine print ;-).
Have we had the required daily mash link yet? If not...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/best-nobel-peace-prize-ever-2012101244756
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SimonG: I think that this is perfect. Honestly. Take a look at Europe through history. When was a time when we weren't at each others throat? The EU changed that. It connected Europe politically, economically and culturally. Now France and Germany are in each others arms, and no longer at each others throat. If the only thing the EU ever did was to stop that repeating circle of killing that Europe was under since the dawn of men, it was worth every single penny.
Bullshit. Absence of preconditions before its existence does not mean they had an active hand in making that so. How many times has there been a reason for someone to go invade another country, and the EU stepped in to moderate the dispute? I'll hold my breath waiting for an answer to that one...

How many times did they try to stop the wars in Yugoslavia/Bosnia/Serbia/Montenegro before the US and NATO stepped in to do it right?
How peaceful are Greece and Spain these days?

Who were the runners-up, Pol Pot, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Marshal Tito and Hitler?

Oh look! There's not been a meteor strike in Europe for a couple of decades, let's give the EU an Öpik Prize as well, for stopping those!!!

*facepalm*
This award is utterly farcical, and a complete abrogation of the nature of the prize. It demeans itself by even considering the EU as a valid candidate, let alone actually awarding it....

You really want to stop wars? For all time? Get rid of politicians. End of. People don't start wars. Governments do. People only die in them...while governments sit above it all, cackling with glee and rubbing their hands together at the thought of what they can steal...
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Lone3wolf: How many times has there been a reason for someone to go invade another country, and the EU stepped in to moderate the dispute? I'll hold my breath waiting for an answer to that one...
Yeah, It seems like EU in most cases was just simply acting like there's nothing going on. Sometimes they sent some "damning letter" or two...
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SimonG: Hey, does that mean we can keep Kafka now?
I never thought he was ours to begin with.
In light of the serious politico I'd like to share some cheesecake with you.

Please don't downrep me, but we really need to lighten the mood. <3 Enjoy teh cheezecake
Attachments:
You know what the absurdity is?

The head nominators is the general secretary of the Council of Europe.
Basically it means the EU nominated itself.
The EU was founded in order to control the tools needed to wage war, first as the European Steel and Coal Community and then as the European Atomic Energy Community. It's obvious that the goal from the start was the minimise the risk of another European war. The biggest factor in the decision: This is the longest period during which France hasn't been at war with itself or one of its neighbours in its entire history. That deserves a Nobel Prize.
J'invite les interessés à lire le fameux discour de Victor Hugo tenu lors du congrès de la paix. Discour très révelateur et surtout avant-gardiste.
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Tantrix: You know what the absurdity is? The head nominators is the general secretary of the Council of Europe. Basically it means the EU nominated itself.
Council of Europe =/= EU. Which is another great example that the EU is an incredible complex topic and most people complaining about it simply never bothered to invest time on it.

Besides all the good the EU has done. It reigns supreme above every nation and supra-nation because we have the f'cking DIE HARD soundtrack as our (supra-)national anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=jF_WA9eOjTk#!

You can't spell AWESOMESAUCE without EU.
Post edited October 13, 2012 by SimonG
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SimonG: It reigns supreme above every nation and supra-nation because we have the f'cking DIE HARD soundtrack as our (supra-)national anthem http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=jF_WA9eOjTk#!
Sans the German lyrics, AFAIK. And I still think the Soviet, I mean Russian anthem kicks its arse, even though the Ode is a bitching tune indeed.