Right, this is more like PBS in the states. You donate money to the station and you get whatever reward. Hopefully the funds they take in are sufficient to not just pay for the gift item, but to fund programming as well.

What really leaves a bad taste in folks mouths is when they spend even the money that they were supposed to spend on swag and leave people with neither the swag nor the finished product.

A lot of the projects that ultimately fail are ones where they fail to account for the taxes, price of swag and a reasonable figure for unforeseen costs.

It would indeed restrict the developer's freedom a bit, but as is demonstrated by this case in some cases restricting the developer's freedom to piss away the money given to them is something that's sometimes needed. The two main things such a plan would accomplish are 1) force the developers to put together a pretty solid plan before asking for money (too many of them don't seem to have such a plan going into things), and 2) make the developers at least somewhat accountable to their backers. Right now once the goal is reached and the money is released the developers have pretty much no financial accountability, and the results we sometimes see from that are quite predictable. Also, if it was the backers making the call on milestones then since they obviously believed in the project enough to put up significant money to begin with they'd probably be on the lenient side when evaluating milestones, provided that the developers haven't gone completely off the rails. Ultimately, when you go asking people for money there are usually some strings attached, and I think that a lot of Kickstarter backers are going to start realizing why that is (if they haven't already).

Why do people keep saying this? I can't claim it on tax as as donation so really it can't be one

It's a contract between the person putting money in and the person behind the project, kinda like a pre-order to put it simply

If I'm wrong, someone tell me why

And don't anyone say it's an investment/I'm an investor >:( It's not/I'm not

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I agree with this all the way ^

Although I think Kickstarter is primed with intention of luring in those who could drop 122 grand like they were buying a can of Coke.

Running of with 122 grand with no explanation is pretty dirty (although should've been expected) but I can't see the Double Fine guys doing this - I wouldn't even suspect that they would need too.

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Pretty much anything you fund on Kickstarter is subject to possibily never getting completed. Honest intentions will never defeat chaos (ie; a plane falling on the entire development team).



For safer funding for us guys with smaller wallets - I would target the amateurs on Desura. They usually ask $5 and therefor are not much of a gamble

Its a donation when you fund at the lowest tiers or when you pay any tier that doesn't promise goods/services. Most Kickstarters have a $1 - $5 tier where they promise their undying gratitude... and nothing else. It's a PURCHASE, when you fund a tier where they promise goods/services. Just as with any purchase, you will have to take your own course of action if things don't go your way.

People get confused because you can pay more cash than value received in the spirit of helping your personal interests come to life... however, this does not negate the terms of your payment... which is to receive something specific in return for your money. Any kickstarter that does not provide goods/services when clearly stated will lose in court. This happens in small claims court every day. although, for KS, class action is likely what will happen to this specific guy.

It has been successful in releasing games which otherwise wouldn't have a chance of being picked up by a publisher. But from what I've seen, there are plenty of indie games (niche or otherwise) that are completed without KS. For example, Unepic. I could be wrong since I didn't follow the game's development, only started to read about the game when it was released here, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a KS project or had a pre-funding campaign.

I agree with hucklebarry in this regard. I wouldn't consider it a donation if you spend enough to reach a tier which promises something in return.

I'm not against KS, people can do what they please with their own money. But I don't see myself ever supporting a project. It might be different if I had a lot of disposable cash to throw around. Its kind of like gambling. I enjoy playing blackjack, but I haven't done so in a long time since I don't have the extra cash in my budget.

Yeah, I understand the risks involved and regularly back projects I like :) You just have to weight up whether the project leader/group seem reliable

Heh, I love Desura too and have a number of games on there as well
Yeah, I realise that, as in, if you receive nothing it's a donation. I was referring to the tiers where you receive something and I should have clarified that, even though your answer did clear things up for me :) Thankyou for that

It's funny how people get confused about that. Many [people] seem to get confused with understanding Kickstarter is not a shop either

I hope he does gets sued. The fact he said, "Sue me and you get nothing" (sic) makes me want him sued into oblivion even more

It could be a good thing to start collecting a database of succesful Kickstarter, IndieGoGO etc. projects, that got their moneyt but have failed to deliver. We've been so enthustiastic about the possibilities, that we've forgotten the real risks, thanks to these crowdsourcing sites not talking about the projects that got the money, but never delivered.

I think it would be best to create a database of all projects and their results. Creating a subset is inherently biased. A database with a fulfillment date for all projects will be more informative, since it will tell how much projects go over time, and those that fail completely will be just one part of the data.

That's why I have a small budget for Kickstarter. I aim at around $25 a month on average, but it's more like $30+. Around 10% of that is pure donation. Highest I ever pledged was $109 for 3Doodler, but that was because my wife found it very appealing. Highest I pledged for myself was $50 for Torment.

If you're totally risk averse, Kickstarter isn't for you. However the risk of a project completely failing is pretty low. The biggest risk is a project not turning out the way you hoped it would be, and I have to say that I usually go in with low expectations but end up pleasantly surprised. Some people go in with very high expectations and end up disappointed.

Yeah, that would be for the best. As it's now it is pretty difficult to find out if a funded project has actually managed to deliver, so it would be nice to keep all the funded projects on a neat database, where you would be able to track them and also gather information about them.

Kickstarter should do this. If not, perhaps there should be a KS wiki or something. Or, perhaps someone should propose a kickstarter project whose goal is to construct and maintain such a database.

What it the developers take the money and don't deliver?

They should, but they don't. It's their policy of washing their hands from the tracking responsibility of what the developers are actually doing with the money. They don't want to be accountable if the developer fails to deliver, as they see their role in the process is just to offer the platform for gathering funding, not making sure the project is actually completed after funfing.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/comments

Lawrence "Saker" Collins 3 days ago

It's not an investment.
It's not an investment.
It's not an investment.
Kickstarter is not selling investments. They aren't investments. You aren't investing. You aren't buying a security. Kickstarter doesn't sell securities. They aren't allowed to sell securities.

People need to quit saying that backing a KS project is making an investment. They need to quit saying that you assume the risk because it's an investment.

It's not an investment. If you say it's an investment, you don't know what you're talking about. Quit it. It's not.

In this case, you entered into a contract for whatever it is you backed. You paid money on the promise of getting a product. That's not an investment. It's a contract. It's a pre-purchase. You paid for product X, you're supposed to get product X. If you don't get product X, the contract has been breached.

More significantly, if the person who promised you X for money never actually intended to give you money, then it's FRAUD. If the person took the money for X and spent it on Y for himself, then it's THEFT.

It's not an investment. You paid for X. Demand X