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General discussionWould you SSD or not?(189 posts)(189 posts)
(189 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 22, 2019
low rated
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Tauto: No,Desktop but two years since last format is indeed a fair while but mine hasn't been since purchased and that's over five years ago and as long as you use some cleaners and do a defrag every now and then it should be okay.I don't dl much crap or install different programs as that is just asking for trouble.My pc is still as fast as the day I purchased it which proves my theory correct,well in my eyes it does,age and (wear and tear) slight graphics card and maybe a run down HHD problem is all that's wrong with it.
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lukaszthegreat: Ah. Ok.
Your pc is still slower than cheapo ssd from pccasegear. The difference is massive.
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Dark_art_: My laptop came with a 7200 rpm disc.
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lukaszthegreat: True. Some come with those but they are loud and battery hungry.
1. That's a tad hyperbolic and also some people don't mind waiting a few extra seconds for an OS/game to load.

2. I have them and they don't sound that loud to me....heck, my DESK FAN is louder.
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Tauto: Just an update on new pc for those that are interested.Also WIN10 PRO is provided free,instead of Home.This was suggested by builder,instead of higher priced pieces.Maybe,some of you will say that ''this is no good'' but the deal is done and paid so there is no going back:)

> > > Case : Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB with DVD Burner (+$39.00)
> > > LCD Monitor : No Monitor
> > > Power Supply : Thermaltake/Corsair/Coolermaster 80 Plus 750W Heavy Duty
> > > Motherboard : Asus ROG-STRIX-Z390-F-GAMING 9Gen 4xDDR4 6xSATA CF 1xUSB-C 8xUSB3.1 GbE LAN (+$135.00)
> > > Processor (CPU) : Intel CoffeeLake Core i5 9600K 3.7GHz (4.60GHz Turbo) 6 Core,9th Gen
> > > CPU Cooling : CoolerMaster Master LIQUID 120 CPU Cooler
> > > Graphics Card : New nVidia GeForce RTX 2060 GAMING OC 6GB GDDR6 8K (+$569.00)
> > > Sound Card : Integrated 5.1/7.1 High Definition Audio
> > > Hard Disk Drive : 2 Terrabyte HDD Seagate/WD Blue SATA 3 (+$29.00)
> > > 2nd Hard Drive : None
> > > RAM (memory) : 16 Gigabytes 2666Mhz DDR4 GSkill / Crucial /Kingston (+$119.00)
> > > Keyboard_Mouse : No Keyboard & Mouse
> > > Wireless LAN : D-Link /Asus/TP-Link n300 Internal Wireless WiFi Adapter (+$25.00)
> > > Operating Sys : WINDOWS 10 HOME 64 bit ESD MEDIALESS - Fully Installed....Now PRO.
> > > Office Suite : No Thanks
> > > Software : Windows Defender (AntiVirus)
> > > WARRANTY : 3 YEAR (36 Months) RTB Warranty with Lifetime Email/Phone Support
> > > DELIVERY : FREE DELIVERY AUSTRALIA WIDE - Fully Insured
--------------------------
Order Total : $2445.00
Grand Total : $2445.00
That Liquid cooling will be a pain to maintain, and the vid card seems like overkill(especially if you don;'t have a monitor to make use of 4/8K)....also the no second HDD seems a tad iffy considering you splurged on other areas.....the rest seems fine, though.
Post edited July 22, 2019 by GameRager
Posted July 22, 2019
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GameRager: If you have/had OS in RAM wouldn't it be lost when the power shut off?
Only what's copied to RAM, yes. It would be fast, and libraries might not need to be loaded as they are already in ram (and just give a RO link to libraries and the like). But that would be like /bin /sbin /usr /tmp, etc, basically read-only stuff and temporaries; Not /etc or /home
Posted July 22, 2019
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GameRager: If you have/had OS in RAM wouldn't it be lost when the power shut off?
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rtcvb32: Only what's copied to RAM, yes. It would be fast, and libraries might not need to be loaded as they are already in ram (and just give a RO link to libraries and the like). But that would be like /bin /sbin /usr /tmp, etc, basically read-only stuff and temporaries; Not /etc or /home
There are actual OS that work that way, I´ve used Puppy Linux, Slax and Porteus (last one didn't run as expected) on a old laptop (good old Asus EEEPC with those Intel crAptom CPU's) and they run just fine. They kinda boot a little on the slow side.

BTW, using Puppy was how I found palemoon browser, wich I still use to this day.

There are some non-volatile Ram modules, wich may be capable of running the OS by itself. Intel Optane is a exemple.
Actually, regarding the original post, if Tauto eventually cares about storage speed of his hard drive, there are solutions to speed up things a little bit, Intel Optane being one of them. There are also software that enables a regular SSD as a cache drive.
Posted July 23, 2019
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Dark_art_: ... Slax...
I loved Slax. Unfortunately the 7z/xz high compression makes it too slow to be really usable. But i loved the modular setup. Download an attachment, VIOLA you got Openoffice and all relevant files installed. Detatch it and BOOM it never existed.

I'll look back on Slax if it goes back an option with SquashFS with the original zlib usage or some variant of it namely for speed. Or maybe decompresses and recompresses from xz to zlib in some form for speed while running.


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Dark_art_: BTW, using Puppy was how I found palemoon browser, wich I still use to this day.
I use palemoon too! Though on other distros it was dubbed IceWolf or something.

I just want to run the core OS in ram and everything else from the storage media that's low priority.

Hmmm... suppose could go with the initrd method and throw most of an OS on that... I don't feel like digging through the internals to see how to set it up though.
Posted July 23, 2019
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Dark_art_: ... Slax...
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rtcvb32: I loved Slax. Unfortunately the 7z/xz high compression makes it too slow to be really usable. But i loved the modular setup. Download an attachment, VIOLA you got Openoffice and all relevant files installed. Detatch it and BOOM it never existed.

I'll look back on Slax if it goes back an option with SquashFS with the original zlib usage or some variant of it namely for speed. Or maybe decompresses and recompresses from xz to zlib in some form for speed while running.

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Dark_art_: BTW, using Puppy was how I found palemoon browser, wich I still use to this day.
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rtcvb32: I use palemoon too! Though on other distros it was dubbed IceWolf or something.

I just want to run the core OS in ram and everything else from the storage media that's low priority.

Hmmm... suppose could go with the initrd method and throw most of an OS on that... I don't feel like digging through the internals to see how to set it up though.
Slax was great, it kinda make me see how ridiculous things were done, user wise, on windows over the years... Of course, the backwards compatibility is great and can hinder good improvements.

I can't help with your goal since it's way above my knowledge but a random idea that cross my mind (probably dumb AF) is those "RamDisk" programs that let you use Ram as a physical storage drive, the same thechnique can be implemented before system startup?

Either way, most modern OS don't operate like that? Save a lot of data on the Ram?
On either
Posted July 24, 2019
While looking for a suitable SSD for my friend, I got tempted to look for one for myself too and found out that at least around 1TB size, M.2 NVMe SSDs are cheaper than those with SATA in the older HD format. Nice bonus how they are faster too. Here the 1TB size is where you pay the least $£€/GB. It would feel idiotic to pay €72 for ~500GB when I can get twice that for just 35% more money and get a speed boost on top :-)

*Note that I did not look at M.2 drives that use the SATA system as I fail to see why I would want the slow speed in an M.2 slot.
Post edited July 24, 2019 by Themken
Posted July 24, 2019
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rtcvb32: Only what's copied to RAM, yes. It would be fast, and libraries might not need to be loaded as they are already in ram (and just give a RO link to libraries and the like). But that would be like /bin /sbin /usr /tmp, etc, basically read-only stuff and temporaries; Not /etc or /home
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Dark_art_: There are actual OS that work that way, I´ve used Puppy Linux, Slax and Porteus (last one didn't run as expected) on a old laptop (good old Asus EEEPC with those Intel crAptom CPU's) and they run just fine. They kinda boot a little on the slow side.
(Note: This post is assuming Linux.)

One way to fix the booting speed (or, rather, defer much of the work to after the system is booting):
* Store the OS on a read-only btrfs filesystem, with the seeding flag set. (I will call this the "seed".)
* On boot, in the initramfs, create a block device in ram (I used zram when making a proof of concept), and add it to the btrfs filesystem. It is now possible to remount the filesystem read-write.
* Switch root to the new filesystem; the initramfs's init program now execve()s the final filesystem's init program (which would be what I call systemd-init if the system is a systemd system, for example).
* After the system has booted, one can remove the seed from the btrfs filesystem; this will result in everything being copied to RAM.

It may be possible to do this with the device mapper (the idea being to set up a RAID1-style mirror and then break it), but doing this with btrfs is simpler. Currently, bcahcefs (another Linux filesystem in development, not in mainline) doesn't support seeds, but it appears that this would be usable, if you use some dm-snapshot trickery to make the read-only block device appear writable.
Posted July 24, 2019
HDD's aka "spinning disk fossil" are the major bottleneck in system speed for years. No current pc hardware should have a HDD as a boot syatem, unless a very specific use case IMHO.
Is the same as pairing a modern GPU, say a 2070/5700, with a core2quad for modern gaming at sensible resolutions. Will it work, sure. Will the GPU be under used? We all know the answer...
This is pretty much the case of OP.
Posted July 24, 2019
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rtcvb32: Hmmm... suppose could go with the initrd method and throw most of an OS on that... I don't feel like digging through the internals to see how to set it up though.
Tiny Core Linux does just that.

I believe CoreOS also does that.

There's also Alpine Linux, which can also work this way, except that the kernel modules are still stored on persistent storage and mounted (under /.modloop/, I believe).

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Dark_art_: ... Slax...
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rtcvb32: I loved Slax. Unfortunately the 7z/xz high compression makes it too slow to be really usable. But i loved the modular setup. Download an attachment, VIOLA you got Openoffice and all relevant files installed. Detatch it and BOOM it never existed.
You do know that a Viola is a string instrument, similar to a violin but a bit bigger and lower pitched, right?

(You probably meant to say "voila" (with an accent on the a), not "viola".)
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Themken: *Note that I did not look at M.2 drives that use the SATA system as I fail to see why I would want the slow speed in an M.2 slot.
What if your laptop has room for an M.2 drive, but has only a SATA connecter instead of the connector that faster drives use?
Post edited July 24, 2019 by dtgreene
Posted July 24, 2019
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dtgreene: [
What if your laptop has room for an M.2 drive, but has only a SATA connecter instead of the connector that faster drives use?
I'm not sure if you got what Themken means. There are some older m.2 connector that used SATA interface instead of direct PCI interface. SATA 6gbps will pretty much saturate with modern flash memory and limit speed, either with SATA or m.2 connector
Posted July 25, 2019
No but you people are right and I had the thought as I woke up today that the option must be for laptops but when shopping for a computer that can use NVMe we have to be careful not to pick wrong kind.

Now there is this U.2 too to confuse us even more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.2
Posted July 25, 2019
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Dark_art_: HDD's aka "spinning disk fossil" are the major bottleneck in system speed for years. No current pc hardware should have a HDD as a boot syatem, unless a very specific use case IMHO.
Is the same as pairing a modern GPU, say a 2070/5700, with a core2quad for modern gaming at sensible resolutions. Will it work, sure. Will the GPU be under used? We all know the answer...
This is pretty much the case of OP.
To be fair, HDD's aren't that bad unless they are the cheap & nasty 5200 RPM's. With most computers, those were provided, and if you bought a decent 7200RPM drive the difference over the cheap crap provided was easily noticeable.

Considering the amount of shovelware people like to run on their systems, there are worse things than a 7200RPM drive, that even an SSD can't help you with.
Post edited July 25, 2019 by DetouR6734
Posted July 25, 2019
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Dark_art_: HDD's aka "spinning disk fossil" are the major bottleneck in system speed for years. No current pc hardware should have a HDD as a boot syatem, unless a very specific use case IMHO.
Is the same as pairing a modern GPU, say a 2070/5700, with a core2quad for modern gaming at sensible resolutions. Will it work, sure. Will the GPU be under used? We all know the answer...
This is pretty much the case of OP.
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DetouR6734: To be fair, HDD's aren't that bad unless they are the cheap & nasty 5200 RPM's. With most computers, those were provided, and if you bought a decent 7200RPM drive the difference over the cheap crap provided was easily noticeable.

Considering the amount of shovelware people like to run on their systems, there are worse things than a 7200RPM drive, that even an SSD can't help you with.
Those HDDs, though, do have their uses. In particular, I would expect them to be quieter and use less power than the faster ones. Also, they're cheaper, and sometimes what you need is a large amount of storage at an affordable price.

Of course, I wouldn't run an OS off one these days (in fact, I wouldn't want to use any spinning disk to hold the OS on a new computer; even the cheapest computers these days have solid state storage), but they work well for things like music and other media where speed isn't an issue, or backups which you only do occasionally (but should still not forget to do). (Note that going USB for thses sort of drives is an option, particularly if it's a laptop-sized drive that doesn't need external power; do you *really* need your backup storage attached *all* the time?)
Posted July 25, 2019
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DetouR6734: To be fair, HDD's aren't that bad unless they are the cheap & nasty 5200 RPM's. With most computers, those were provided, and if you bought a decent 7200RPM drive the difference over the cheap crap provided was easily noticeable.

Considering the amount of shovelware people like to run on their systems, there are worse things than a 7200RPM drive, that even an SSD can't help you with.
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dtgreene: Those HDDs, though, do have their uses. In particular, I would expect them to be quieter and use less power than the faster ones. Also, they're cheaper, and sometimes what you need is a large amount of storage at an affordable price.

Of course, I wouldn't run an OS off one these days (in fact, I wouldn't want to use any spinning disk to hold the OS on a new computer; even the cheapest computers these days have solid state storage), but they work well for things like music and other media where speed isn't an issue, or backups which you only do occasionally (but should still not forget to do). (Note that going USB for thses sort of drives is an option, particularly if it's a laptop-sized drive that doesn't need external power; do you *really* need your backup storage attached *all* the time?)
Honestly the price difference wasn't worth the intolerable wait of loading the OS, and the software used.

5200RPM's should have been stopped years back, and considering how quiet 2.5" 7200RPM's were, there would be absolutely no need to drop to a 5200.

It was for the cheapskates that sold prebuilt computers.




I hate 5200's with a passion.
Post edited July 25, 2019 by DetouR6734
Posted July 25, 2019
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GameRager: I get that some dislike waiting but was 1 minute really that long to wait for a system to boot? Some are getting lazier and lazier these days, it seems.

(Yes I know some need that extra time saved, and not all are lazy.....they are ok, imo)
its quality of life.

need to check when movie is being shown in cinema and compare few places at the same time? easier to do on pc than phone

but if you gotta wait a 1min to just start the pc its sortof annoying.

everything is faster on ssd. not by a lot but noticeable.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWould you SSD or not?(189 posts)(189 posts)
(189 posts)