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General discussionWould You Accept ANY Form of DRM?(175 posts)(175 posts)
(175 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 06, 2019
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Spectre: Thanks to star farce some of my disc games no longer work so now I need to hunt for cracks before they all disappear.
In some cases Starforce or Tages are embedded right in front of the installer. Better look for a complete copy, because the disk are often useless.
Posted November 06, 2019
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Spectre: Thanks to star farce some of my disc games no longer work so now I need to hunt for cracks before they all disappear.
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toxicTom: In some cases Starforce or Tages are embedded right in front of the installer. Better look for a complete copy, because the disk are often useless.
I've witnessed SafeDisc being implemented upon installers, too. C&C Red Alert 2 (base game only) and Emperor: Battle for Dune (official "installation fix" exists that bypasses it).
Posted November 06, 2019
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ELFswe: No

BUT..... The answer is not that simple....

If companies would release physical copies more often I would be ok with cdkey drm, but only as long as no internet connection is needed. But then again. If you loose the cdkey you're screwed. Best thing is if it's a psycial copy wich is completely drm free.
Umm... it's way harder to backup a physical disk, than a CD key. I used to have a file with all of mine (for copy and paste). You can back this up easily, put it in some cloud, print it out, OCR it again - it's just text.
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Plokite_Wolf: I've witnessed SafeDisc being implemented upon installers, too. C&C Red Alert 2 (base game only) and Emperor: Battle for Dune (official "installation fix" exists that bypasses it).
You're right, the later versions of SafeDisk could also be pretty evil. And those disk are probably shiny decorations nowadays too.
Post edited November 06, 2019 by toxicTom
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: And I'd be one of those still complaining, as my beef is with the very concept.
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GameRager: It's called compromise...you get something and give something....not very hard to wrap one's head around.
No way. When you demand little, you get even less.
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: No way. When you demand little, you get even less.
And if you demand everything or nothing which do you think you'll end up getting?

Usually in negotiations everyone gets something or tries to, not just one side.

In essence, your desire of drm free or bust for all games is about as realistic as me getting abducted by aliens whilst winning the lotto whilst being made king of the earth, and you either need to come to a more reasonable stance or cut yourself out of a swatch of things(entertainment/etc) because of it.

Addition: Forgot to say that while I disagree with you on this, I admire you for ticking to your convictions.
Post edited November 07, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 07, 2019
No. DRM-FREE or nothing for me.
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: And I'd be one of those still complaining, as my beef is with the very concept.
The concept only bothers me because the company is controlling my access after I bought something and risking preservation. If it was always removed 3 months later, a 100% guarantee, then both those concerns would pretty much go out the window for me.
Posted November 07, 2019
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lolinc: Anyway, I did find this interesting and encouraging, which is probably old news to most gentle readers here.
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toxicTom: Interesting. There has been a similar (not identical) verdict many years ago in Germany regarding "getting a purchase to run". In this case it was an expensive application which IIRC came with some kind of Dongle. For some reason the Dongle didn't work and the company which bought the product asked, but never got, a working version from the software manufacturer. So they applied a crack - but the software phoned home and reported this. So the company (the customer!) was sued for reverse engineering and breaking the copy protection.
The court verdict was similar: Since the company legally obtained the product they had the right to get it to run, including reverse engineering and changing (cracking) it, since there was no other means to make it usable.
In case of Steam this would hinge on two issues: Are you actually "buying a product" (French court ruling, currently appealed against) or a subscription (Valve's POV)? Only if it's "a product" you do "own" it and may legally break the copy protection if all else fails.
Then there is the problem of obtaining the product in the first place. In case Steam goes down, your account is locked etc... even if you "own" the product (and can prove it, receipts etc), how do you obtain it? The download from Steam is barred, downloading from "another source" is certainly a very dark grey area, P2P is out of the question, because it means uploading at the same time which you do have definitely NO right to. So the "product" definition only really helps for games you have currently installed and won't let you play because of some Steam issue - only those you could (if it's a "product" you "bought") crack to make them working again.
Right, yeah, getting into a lot of messy tort-issues here, in which case I think most jurists are going to look at TOS/EULA language and whether issuance was business in good faith, and probably lots of quibbling over "lease" and "possession"/"purchase" and "ownership". I think the good faith aspect tends to influence a lot of murky disputes.
Post edited November 07, 2019 by lolinc
Posted November 07, 2019
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GameRager: And if you demand everything or nothing which do you think you'll end up getting?

Usually in negotiations everyone gets something or tries to, not just one side.
*shrug* You end up sticking to your principles, that's the first rule. As for what you get, when a concept is in itself intolerable, degrees don't matter.
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: *shrug* You end up sticking to your principles, that's the first rule. As for what you get, when a concept is in itself intolerable, degrees don't matter.
While it is admirable it usually only gives one a sense of self satisfaction and not much else in many such cases, and to me that isn't worth it in many cases where I have to choose principles or having fun in my short time allotted on this earth.
Posted November 07, 2019
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GameRager: While it is admirable it usually only gives one a sense of self satisfaction and not much else in many such cases, and to me that isn't worth it in many cases where I have to choose principles or having fun in my short time allotted on this earth.
Why we can't have good things, yeah...
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: Why we can't have good things, yeah...
Dunno if this is agreeing with me or sarcasm....I will say this: Life is short and people should enjoy themselves(while not limiting others, of course) and not keep limiting themselves just to feel morally better while alive....just my two cents.

Of course, principles can have their uses and I admire those who stick to them, so there's that.
Posted November 07, 2019
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GameRager: Dunno if this is agreeing with me or sarcasm....I will say this: Life is short and people should enjoy themselves(while not limiting others, of course) and not keep limiting themselves just to feel morally better while alive....just my two cents.

Of course, principles can have their uses and I admire those who stick to them, so there's that.
Obviously sarcasm.

Human life is generally very long, compared to the vast majority of other species, and we have the capacity to shape even the world, not to mention human society, according to our will. So we must use it to create a better life for all in the future, not focus on short-term self-interest. That often harms even said self in the long term anyway.
Posted November 07, 2019
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Cavalary: Human life is generally very long, compared to the vast majority of other species, and we have the capacity to shape even the world, not to mention human society, according to our will. So we must use it to create a better life for all in the future, not focus on short-term self-interest. That often harms even said self in the long term anyway.
It is short on the cosmic scale, and don't kid yourself...most of us end up affecting the world very little, and moreso with internal stances such as being 100% anti-drm. The companies will likely keep on using it unless something changes, and holding such beliefs internally doesn't help to change that for the most part....it just makes one feel they are doing something that will affect change so they can feel better about themselves and not as powerless as they often are(due less to being actually non powerful and more due to people not wanting to make much effort in many cases).
Post edited November 07, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 07, 2019
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GameRager: It's called compromise...you get something and give something....not very hard to wrap one's head around.
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Cavalary: No way. When you demand little, you get even less.
I would argue companies like EA figured out exactly how to make big changes in a pretty short amount of time. Slooooowly introduce anti consumer garbage, then once it has become the norm... Introduce more garbage!

I think consumers should work similarly. Slooowly ask for less and less restrictions. First stop buying on Origin, then stop buying live services... and then at some point we will get to less restrictive DRM until we reach no DRM!

Unfortunately, even though the free market would totally make this possible, most consumers are just so hungry for content they would eat up shit with thorns at this point if that meant being able to join their favorite Youtubers in their discussions.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWould You Accept ANY Form of DRM?(175 posts)(175 posts)
(175 posts)