Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Oblivion actually have a different issue; the skill XP you gain does not scale with the difficulty of the task or the strength of the enemies you fight. This is analogous to a conventional level/XP system where XP requirements continue to increase, but the XP you get from killing enemies remains the same regardless of the strength of the enemy.

The problem with 2e psionics wasn't in the core mechanics (at least if you ignore psionic combat), but rather in the fact that, unlike spells, psionic powers are not level gated. This means that, at low levels, you can use powerful powers like Disintegrate, but you have no room to grow as you level up. This behavior clashes with the spell system, and results in psionics being overpowered (relative to spells) at low levels and underpowerd at high levels. If you don't have magic to compare it to, the balance issue becomes less of an issue.

Also, the system has a problem similar to THAC0, AC, and saving throws; for a power to be successful, you must not roll too high, but if a roll is successful, a higher role is better. (So if you have a power score of 14, then 14 > 13 > 15, since 15 is a failure.)

Incidentally, I have thought about making a tabletop roleplaying system loosely based off the SaGa series of video games, and in doing so, I have come up with some interesting mechanics. For example, after each fight, you get to roll for each exercised stat, and if you roll higher than your stat, you gain a point in the stat. There's also tech sparking, where, if you roll the same number on multiple die when attacking (like rolling two 3's), you get to roll on the appropriate technique sparking table, and if the roll (modified by the encounter difficulty) is higher than a technique you haven't learned, you learn the highest technique lower than your roll and use it immediately. I haven't formalized it or tried to run it, but it does seem like it could work. (Also, Life Points, which can be used in contexts where other systems would let you use Hero Points, but are also lost when reduced to 0 HP or drained by (typically) undead, and if you reach 0 LP, you die.)

I'm a big believer in rolling for stats, in fact I hate the idea of NOT doing it. Flawed characters are more interesting. And it's all for fun - no one will force you to play a character you rolle if he is totally useless. But I hate it when people play this optimal party of perfectly balanced characters with hand-picked stats. That's so boring. Even if your character is "worse" than the others, that doesn't have to mean much. Be clever, be creative, and you'll work around it. It's not about being "better", it's not about winning. It's about fun. Your flawed character can bring so much more fun to everyone around the table than any boring super intelligent wizard. The worst that can happen is that your character will die, and that can be fun too, if you go out in a blaze of glory, or a blaze of stupidity :D And then you make a new character.

Reminds me first time I went to the Northampton Roleplaying club. It was about 3 miles from where I lived so I ride my bike.

Not knowing which game they were going to be playing I took my entire collection.

It filled an 80L rucksack and weighed as much as me.

Good times.

I think the mid 90's was the best time for PnP roleplaying.

1. Don't argue with the Dungeon Master.

2. Don't eat any of the pieces or the dices.

3. Don't... just, don't! Ok? I said no!


EDIT: Sorry I misread. I thought this was about "first rules", not "worst rules".

I think what I hate the most is the way D&D handles magic, with limited amount of spells per day to be re-learned at every rest. It feels ridiculously artificial, and can seriously impede the game, by having the spellcaster either be afraid to use spells becasue we might need them later, stockpiling them for an emergency that never happens, or being left pretty much useless for even simple encounters if he already used up his spells. Either way, it's why I pretty much never want to play a spellcasting class in D&D.

Agreed. I much preferred using Spell points, which was something that regularly appeared in Dungeon magazine. Odd it never became a legitimate rule.

Spell casters are my favourite class, but only if the GM/DM can be fluid with interpretation of the spells. Casting shrink on the opponents armour or feather fall on their weapon.

Worst rules in tabletop games? F.A.T.A.L. has all of them. ALL OF THEM. A particular classic is rolling for anal circumference at character creation.

Here's a review.

I think that's the worst thing a DM can do, plot railroading like this. I had something like this happen to me (not with resurrection, but another "forced outcome) and I hated it. I may not be the greates DM ever, or most experienced, but I did DM a few campaings now, and I always, ALWAYS roll with whatever the players choose, and with their success or failure. Yes, I have a plan and a plot, but I would never force a failure on them just becuase the plot demands it. I have alternate plans, and if even those fail, I improvise. If the players outsmart whatever I had laid out for them, they should be rewarded, not punished by some act of god making them fail. And if they make a incredibly stupid choice and go somewhere I didn't expect becuase they have some crazy plan or something, even if they decide to run to another country... I'll roll with that. Otherwise it's no fun.

Had one GM run a bought campaign for Level 10 characters. So I make level 10 druid for the game, with a set number of magical items. I've always been one for role-playing rather than roll-playing, so everything had a history including my +3 Scimitar. I decided, with GM's blessing, that it was a heirloom handed down from generation to generation. It was ceremonial, never used or to be used in combat, and was bound into its scabbard.

We are suppose to be cornered and captured by the local villagers as part of the plot.

So we're cornered in the village Hall, they're demanding our armour and weapons. I offer all I have but the Scimitar which stays with me. Unfortunately the GM didn't know how to handle that, and gets the NPC's to rush us.

Me: Cast Warp Wood on the roof beams.
GM and the other players: WHAT!
Me: Cast Warp Wood on the roof beams.
GM: You'll die.
Me: I know.

So we all die, the NPC priest suddenly gains 5 levels and resurrects us all.

Well, this is an example of worst role playing, aided by worst system.

Oh, well, fun memories ;)

That's a good attitude to have, and yes, a flawed character can be very fun.

What I'm coming from is the idea that not all people are as ... don't know the right word... well balanced? as that.
They'll see their fighter with a measly 12 str, and the party rogue with 16 str and bitch and moan about it. Listening to that guy bitch won't be fun.
And I'll be honest, part of me is coming from the fact that I was young when I started playing. Wasn't even 13 yet I don't' think, and I was likely to be the one bitching and moaning about having low scores.

And sometimes you cannot get away from the spoilsport (Not reasonably anyway). Be it because he's the DM's lil brother and the god of all things in the house (aka Mom) says he must be allowed to play with you, or its at a convention and the guy isn't technically breaking any rules and the DM has no spine to tell him to STFU.

Ideally you'd have a great DM that would say, "Oh, you didn't get enough to be a Paladin, reroll." and a group of players that wouldn't lord high stats or bitch about low stats, and just roll (haha, I kill me) with it.

Sadly, that ideal isn't always feasable, and its just better to say "you have this many points, he had the same points, deal with it."

And I agree. Having that Gnome around who thinks he's really clever but is actually a moron could be very fun. Or the barbarian that isn't actually all that strong, just very... spirited ... could be quite entertaining. Sadly with some players and some groups you simply can't get away with it, thus point buy systems.


And about the DM's killing everyone? sheesh, even I know you don't do things like that unless you absolutely know the players will go with it, and if you don't know your players well enough to say they will do it? Then stash the idea away for later.

I don't say never use it though, because I remember a quest I had with my first group when I was young. We were all somehow killed, forget the details of how, but then we were all in the afterlife as skeletons that somehow retained our powers. It was a blast. (Yes, we eventually got back into our fleshy bodies.)

However we were all pretty up for something like that. I don't know if our DM knew this, or just got lucky, but it worked. Obviously the group mentioned in that other post wasn't entirely up for the idea of a hamfisted "you all die" event, so the DM should have shelved that idea for another day/group.



Thought of another bad rule, or system rather. I forget what game it was, just something my sister's then boyfriend had. Would have been from the mid 90's or there abouts. It was heavily focused on real modern weapons and such, and had super complex formulas for weapon damage.
We're talking formulas involving square roots and such. stuff you could never do in your head unless you were some kind of savant.
Whats the fun in a game that needs a freaking scientific calculator on standby just to play?

I remember a game of D&D where at one point me & the team jumped off a cliff (running from some explosion or something) onto a flying carpet, and the DM decided to calculate our combined weight, with our equipment, and combined with the speed of us falling etc. to determine whether the flying carpet could "handle" us, or crash. I was like "seriously? an elf, a dwarf and a half-orc running from a dragon jump onto a flying carpet and you're brining in realistic physics into it now?" And the DM got really angry and pissy, and the whole situation got strangly out of hand. I know one shouldn't argue with a DM, but come on. There's a time and place for everything, and a climax of a high fantasy adventure is not the moment to pull out you calculator :P

The actual effect, given the repulsion charms and tightness of the fabric needed for a flying carpet, is much like a trampoline. Heroes and equipment get thrown back into the air to be swallowed whole by the dragon.