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Most private users never come in contact with MS support. Linux is not about missing support, it's just too complicated for the standard user. He doesn't know where to start.
MS and Apple, along with Google invested a lot in accessibility, that's something that the Linux devs missed so far.

There just is no "we" who can do something. The majority decides and currently the vaste majority is perfectly happy. Most people are ok with what they get. So there is some bloatware displaying news and adds? They are used to that from their smartphones. Need an account? They collect d? Same.
Who would ever question what Sony and whatever other console vendor do with the data they collect about users by logging their actions? People WANT Steam to log every mouse movement, so they can show it to their friends. They have shadow record on so a video is made when they get an achievement. Why should they expect that their OS behaves any different?

This whole nerd thing is over. Today we are all consumers in a social media world. We better get used to it.
Yes, we CAN sit on our offline DRM free games, use old operating systems or play on systems like the evercade. But we won't influence the direction in which the market goes.
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Cavalary: For me it's more like 95>good, 98>poor, ME>bad, 2k>poor, XP>good, Vista>bad, 7>good, 8>awful, 8.1>bad, 10>terrible, 11>horrifying...
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Xeshra: One big question now: Why do you think there is so many "bad creations"; yet it still is able to be successful in general? Maybe because there is still enough of "good" creations?

What will happen if the odds of "bad" creations are increasing? Is there a limit of how much "bad" it is able to handle or is "might" and "support" all what matters to us?
It's unlikely that anything will change in the medium term - possibly not even in the longer term. With the exception of a few niche areas (people working in design and creative tend to use Apple systems, people in IT roles have an increased incidence of using Linux vs average), the entire business ecosystem runs on Windows NT based systems (and predominantly all have now upgraded to 10/11).

There's an element of circular symbiosis - business use Windows, so home PCs tend to use Windows. As home PCs tend to use Windows, it makes sense for businesses to use Windows as you don't need to retrain people to use a different OS.
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neumi5694: Most private users never come in contact with MS support.
I mean the support from the GAME INDUSTRY.... i never was talking about MS support... I think the only time i ever need the MS support is in order to unlock my key blocked by "hardware change":.. and it may still not always work because MS does not enjoy supporting it.

Ah yeah, i once told something regarding MS support from Win 10: I had in mind the support for SECURITY UPDATES, which is critical else the industry is slowly moving away from that OS. I never had in mind anything different...
If MS is completely abandoning it... it will slowly turn into a zombie because to the industry this is the first hint of slowly abandoning it. It kinda is a "planed obsolescence". Of course only for the new stuff... the old stuff can be run forever on it.

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neumi5694: Linux is not about missing support, it's just too complicated for the standard user. He doesn't know where to start.
Then simply make a more user friendly installation, kinda like Windows. Any issue here? Ubuntu seems to work out well i heard. Archlinux on the other hand is surely for true geeks only.
Post edited July 03, 2023 by Xeshra
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Xeshra: I mean the support from the GAME INDUSTRY.... i never was talking about MS support... I think the only time i ever need the MS support is in order to unlock my key blocked by "hardware change":.. and it may still not always work because MS does not enjoy supporting it.
As long as they earn enough while not supporting other OSs or outdated OSs, I don't see any change coming. I as CEO would not want to waste money on an outdated system where I earn very little from.

It's not just the gaming industry, all the big players (Autodesk and similar companies) act the same. When we tell our customers what hard- and software they have to use (not our decision only, but also based on the software our programs communicate with), they go and get it (or buy it from us).

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Xeshra: Then simply make a more user friendly installation, kinda like Windows. Any issue here? Ubuntu seems to work out well i heard. Archlinux on the other hand is surely for true geeks only.
Sure, get to work. If it's that simple then it should not be a problem. But then you'll listen to the same complaints as Microsoft, Google and Apple listen now. A lot of that accessibility is directly connected to the points criticised. Once they get that, Linux won't be the alternative anymore that they are today.
What some people criticise it what most people want.
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neumi5694: This whole nerd thing is over. Today we are all consumers in a social media world. We better get used to it.
Yes, we CAN sit on our offline DRM free games, use old operating systems or play on systems like the evercade. But we won't influence the direction in which the market goes.
I got close to no interest in social media... so not everyone is affected nor is it a hard rule.

I never had the intention of personally changing a certain direction, i just want some alternatives... so there need to be support for other systems. This is a minority matter, yet it is important supporting minoritys too. We have currently a competition issue, as soon as something is pretty much monopolized.

Changing a direction is possible, of course, but it will need a huge amount of people backing it up, else no huge changes will happen at all, not a secret. Yet, you, as a powerless entity is still able to make some beneficial work. Simply inform other people about your issues you may be able to detect... and with increased amount of people. sharing your view, your might will increase as well. However, true changes are never done single handed by one single entity, and if so... you really need to be powerful.

Indeed, there is endless issues on the mobile phones, the worst one is the huge bloatware, yet people are generally tolerating it. This does not mean they are happy but without realistic solutions in order to improve matters... they simply will have to eat this sour apple. Customers need OPTIONS... and with increased options their ability to decide and to make changes according to their wishes will increase, So this is always a 2 sided thing: One side is the one of the main-creators and the other side is the one of the supporters... in this case the customers (it can be from the industry or the end customers...so it is a bit complicated here), Even the end-customers are able to make creations (modding) so this is not without any creations. Ultimately, this is not a one sided thing,,, there is entities on many spots able to move and change stuff... and the final outcome is the product of many of those entities at different spots executing their work and as well giving acceptance in the term of support.

So, in reality, it is way more complicated than just "the majority decided".... it is more of a spiderweb, with influence able to make changes ON MANY SPOT of this spider-construct.

For example, one thing which is CRITICAL is that the customers AT LEAST need to know THOSE OTHER OPTIONS. For example. if there is GoG and Steam and 80% of the customers know Steam but only 40% know GoG... i mean KNOWING IT, then there is a issue with reaching the customer. This is why a good marketing is playing a high role. Most customers can not be bothered doing research themself... but if you explain what it is all about and why the stuff actually exists... the "wise community" will slowly increase and finally we have more diversity, which is a great thing providing option and competition.
Post edited July 03, 2023 by Xeshra
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Xeshra: I got close to no interest in social media... so not everyone is affected nor is it a hard rule.
Same. I suppose you also don't have a discord channel to reach some devs support. That was the one compromise I made but for example I am not interested in showing what to others which games I own. But I don't show my owned games to others and am not interested what they have.
I added one (real life) friend of mine to my PS4 friend list to do him a favor and that's basically it.

But it's still going forward and there is no way of stopping it because the vaste majority of people sees it differently.


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Xeshra: I never had the intention of personally changing a certain direction, i just want some alternatives... so there need to be support for other systems. This is a minority matter, yet it is important supporting minoritys too. We have currently a competition issue, as soon as something is pretty much monopolized.
If you want an alternative, you must find a way to find it profitable for those you want it from.
I was playing online games at a time those "new generations" was still using diapers... and nowadays i am not to impressed regarding all those social stuff anymore. So this is not a hard direction without any chances to be broken at a certain point or age,

I think, real people you should meet somewhere on the street, at work... or whoever... but my experience with online-social-media in general is pretty worse, so to me this is not a good tool in order to bring people together. Okay... maybe you suddenly start becoming a real life friend of me.... who knows, everything is possible but the chance that anything real may happen out of it is according to my experience pretty low.

Of course, i enjoy exchanging my ideas because i am a mindful being, so i enjoy to use my mind; but i do generally not expect much out of it. This is just for my own stupid purpose... because i simply from time to time may enjoy sharing my stupid views to the world.
Post edited July 03, 2023 by Xeshra
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neumi5694: If you want an alternative, you must find a way to find it profitable for those you want it from.
Firstly i have to say, not everyone is motivated by sheer money, not even as a company which to some extend should be profitable because we have a mainly (but not without alternatives) profit based economy system as the main motivating factor. So we are used to hand out or achieve rewards in some way and i guess... this is the reason rewards are just always working so great at any side of the ropes, no matter creators, customers, or something in between. Profit is a motivation mainly based on the mind, so it is a mental-rule we seem to enjoy. It has been taught this way since childhood... so this whole "reward-matter" is rooting pretty deep inside our psyche and mind.

There is another kind of profit, the profit we get from our hearth. Now, this sort of profit does not seem to be rewarding, and apparently it can not make a company work at all. This surely is foolish because we know all the dirt that can happen on certain companys acting with to much mind and with to less heart... it can even damage the integrity of that company. Especially if a company is becoming as big as for example Blizzard. It would be a big benefit for them to focus more on the heart and all the hidden profit coming out of it. This is not visible at all, because the mind only is able to provide a clear vision related to rewards... never the hearth. However... if you move toward the path of what truly is making your hearth bloom, at some point the reward may become visible but not any sooner than that; because we can never calculate matters related to the heart, only the matters related to the mind. Indeed, Blizzard as an example was going down the hellish hole pretty much in the newest age... because they apparently was focusing to much on profit... the mental one... and to less on the heart. As a ultimate rule, you should never go so much "one sided"; else... at some point even the most powerful company may slowly meet their demise.
Post edited July 03, 2023 by Xeshra
Well, if you know companies which you can convince to invest time and money into old operating systems and/or Linux, that's great.
I don't, and I personally also have no interest in doing so.
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Xeshra: Although, Win 10 is no bad OS...
Could you explain that? I heard Win 10 to be a privacy nightmare....
Talking in general here, but also as an answer to why does this happen, I'll just go back to that Pratchett quote: “People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.”

Those having any hopes of a critical mass actually rising up to bring about a positive change of any sort in any field are in for a huge disappointment. That just does not happen. Most people don't think, don't care and will just take the path of least resistance and follow whoever is the best manipulator of the day. It's always the "small groups of determined individuals" who move things. And there are many such groups, with differing and typically conflicting interests. Question is which one uses the means at their disposal to push their agenda most effectively. Usually it's those who already have power and influence and money, who're very few but who obviously have the best arsenal of means, and also the experience of putting them to use and no qualms about doing it in whatever way is necessary. But occasionally they may be thwarted by others, with great planning and determination and that same willingness to do whatever it takes.

So people use whatever flavor of Windows MS decides to push because they're used to using Windows, the software they're used to using is made for Windows, or primarily so, because the developers are used to coding for Windows, and the Windows that's readily accessible, whether preinstalled or readily available to purchase, is whatever MS wants to push. To change that you need to, well, change that.
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neumi5694: Well, if you know companies which you can convince to invest time and money into old operating systems and/or Linux, that's great.
I don't, and I personally also have no interest in doing so.
Something bad will always stay bad, no matter the age. Look at Nintendo... they use one of the most crappy hardware, it can be emulated already by newer hardware. Do people care? No... the Switch is by far the most successful handheld ever... yet, technically... a true retro.

Something good will stay good, for veeeery long time. Skyrim for example is really super old... yet it never fails to draw attention. It has been updated a lot in order to meet the new tech-expectations but originally it was even a 32-bit game on a 500 MB-RAM console (Xbox 360). Same for a old OS... it can be updated comparable to Skyrim; so i dunno why always to "trash it" and trying to move it toward "something new". The interval is way to fast... the industry can barely catch up. This is the main reason we still have very old systems running on some of the most important infrastructures (banking, data management and much more)... and even the OS support from some specialized versions is way longer than the "consumer versions": Yet, the new consumer-versions are not "better" at all... it is simply new crap intended to be used by "labor rats" and able to push the "mobile, including cloud-hype" even further.

And it seems... Microsoft lost the "console war" and the main use is simply to provide a OS for gamers and some solutions the gamers and industry are demanding or at least "accepting". The future seems bright for Sony and Nintendo... all the other in the console-industry already are failing and maybe someday they are gone. Microsoft will find their spot, sure... by excessive force considering providing OS-solutions... as the industry is almost completely attached to it.

Linux? There is absolutely no issue using it in order to make games great. The PS5 is a good example because it is running on a Unix-based system... and the games are running great on it, this is a fact. The developers are even able to "make it happen", but indeed... money seems to be a very big motivation.
Post edited July 05, 2023 by Xeshra
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Xeshra: Although, Win 10 is no bad OS...
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Haremhab: Could you explain that? I heard Win 10 to be a privacy nightmare....
Almost any system in the "new gen" is a privacy nightmare... even many of the new and big games; unfortunately as long as no "huge entity" is going against this direction, which is known as alienation, in the sense of "getting to own the customer so he can be the best sheep ever", for that to happen it is important to know "how they work".

Linux could end this issue, however... without support this will never happen and obviously the industry is not much interested into it for obvious reasons. So you can not attach this issue to Win 10 because it is a general issue, and even bound to many of the games itself (not even provided by the OS).

it would be OK if the user is able to DECIDE, but there is the true issue... in many cases he is not able to decide on "how much of privacy he is willing to lose... or share".
Post edited July 05, 2023 by Xeshra
People may not know, or don't remember, but.

Windows 98 was the most Customizable Windows, you could customize
everythig, including your Boot Screen, & your Log-On Screen to even your
Boot Sounds.

Windows XP is the last System to offer the use of EAX Surround Sound Support,
this meant that anything newer that came out was to struggle with Surround Sound,
as this was never fixed in later versions of Windows.

Windows Vista was the only Windows to Support Animated Wallpapers & Desktop Widgets
This was fast & smooth at the Beginning, but if you didn't handle your Storage well, you
could easily slow your Computer down by doing so with these Features, it just really depends
on how much you focus on Animated Wallpapers & Desktop Widgets. I never had an issue.

Windows 7 was the best visually stunning System that had very low latency

Windows 10 has the best Visually Stunning System, but it is no where near stable in
the form of low latency, it's very stressful on the Sytem. it also supports an easy use
of Drawing on Tablets.
Windows 10 also supports a very nice Dual Interface.
--- Interface For Windows Desktop
--- Interface For Startup Programs & Drawing Art

All of these Windows are unique in their own way & have surprisingly
made an impact on someone who uses them. However, now lets talk
about Windows 11.

Windows 11 supports Mobile first & Computer Second, it's nothing, but a
chaotic mess. Not even the mouse works half the time, & that is a problem.
That is just the beginning of your problems. No System is as bad as Windows 11.
You were never forced into buying a New System, until Windows 10 came around,
& now with Windows 11, your forced into the New System even harder then before.

Windows 11 is the first Windows I actually gave a fuss about claiming I don't wanna be apart of it.
Post edited July 05, 2023 by GuRuAsaki2098
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GuRuAsaki2098: Not even the mouse works half the time, & that is a problem.
That's not a widespread issue. Chances are it's a hardware fault at your end or possibly some kind of incompatibility.

If the mouse didn't work "half the time" in Windows 11 in general, we would have heard more about it.