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Bring on more VR games! :)

I purchased "The Solus Project" here first, "In Dev" on GOG earlier this year, the developers added VR support and updated their release here as well.

I should mention, "Mind: Path to Thalamus" supports VR too.

I think GOG should embrace the VR community; how they do so is yet to be determined.
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vahak11: Will GOG every truly compete with steam?
It can in easily explained theory but as you might already assume the practical application is next to impossible. It requires the AA & AAA release mentality steam has which is up to the publishers, not gog.

That "only" requires a mixture of publishers recognizing that their overzealous DRM methods makes them less not more money (actually likely and happened before; i.e. see birth of gog) and gamers getting some basic self control in refusing to get games from Steam IF (!) they dislike that platform and deal with not playing said game (but instead writing an email to the publisher).
Other mystery companies have already offered GOG money to merge, they even confirmed it in an old series of live Q&A videos. They've denied all of them because they wanted to grow it themselves.

What are you asking specifically when asking this question? Do you want GOG to have a more complete client? Add DRM? Have a larger community? Have more general attraction and praise? Or are you specifically talking about the games?

Or maybe all of the above?

Steam was the first to the scene all the way back in 2003 or 2004. I remember the ugly puke green client like it was yesterday. It was absolute fucking garbage and I remember a LOT of people being upset. Especially in the many old Half-Life forums I used to venture. Many people swore they would never use such a garbage client or support Valve's idea. Some even predicted it would be the death of Valve and such foolish decisions would surely sink them.

Connection issues, download issues, client glitches and bugs, it was a very rough start. Yet, here we are in 2016 and Steam is #1 in the market. The same people who swore they'd never use it have hundreds of games on it, and Valve is far from sinking now. Even Microsoft is jealous of Valve and realizing their neglect towards the PC market is hurting them a bit.

To say they haven't earned that success is a bit narrow-minded imo. They've clearly worked to gain customer trust and entice people to deal with their DRM by making their client very community and customer focused (for the most part). That's why people always list the social features when asked why they like Steam. Streaming, FPS counter, screenshots, achievements, profiles, friends lists, chat, music player, in-game markets as seen in TF2 or CSGO. These things matter to people and makes them feel more "connected" to the client and as a result the loyalty forms. Add to that the fact that Valve's head is a pretty nice and jolly guy that the internet seems to love and as a result their image forms. Jesus with Gabe's face photoshopped into it.

Did they save PC gaming? Not likely, if not them someone else would have come along, but they were the first, they caught everyone off guard, everyone doubted them, and now they are #1 through their own work.

It was such a success that now other major companies are trying to copy their business model. EA has Origin, Ubisoft has UPlay, Microsoft has their.... thing.... and now even GOG is trying to emulate them. What other purpose would they spend the time, money and resources on developing a client? They want those AAA big games. In many ways I'd argue in order for GOG to directly compete with Steam, they'd have to emulate the things Steam does and do it better, and right now as we speak they are already trying to do just that, and just like Valve the start to their client is seeing a very rough start. The only major thing that separates it from Steam is the fact it's "optional". The only question is, is that going to be enough to attract publishers to bring games, and is that going to attract customers? Or are most people going to question the value of rebuying their Steam library here if GOG is "pretty much the same minus DRM". Because I can tell you that most people honestly don't give a shit, or are willing to accept systems like Steam because it gives them a reason to deal with it. "CSGO is there, I like the social features, all my friends are on Steam" whatever it may be.

So OP, I'd answer this by saying GOG is already doing just that. The thing is, a lot of people are going to be split on that fact, because when GOG started, it didn't even want to be anywhere near Steam. It simply wanted to be a store that sold games no longer sold or games that no longer worked on newer hardware, or both. That's it. Unfortunately, at some point, they hit a wall and realized that focusing only on older games would be the death of them. So they re-branded, no longer Good Old Games, but just GOG. Then they started accepting indies and newer games, and movies, and started working on a client, now you can link your account with Steam, a direct nod to Steam and a direct move against Steam, things started changing and fast. Do I think they'll ever be bigger than Steam? No. Honestly I just don't see it for the simple fact that most of the biggest PC games are thanks to the MP communities, and I think this is the key thing GOG cannot emulate from Steam. Those are the games that bring in the big dollars. Steam has their system that makes it easy for devs to manage that, and I'd be willing to bet most people won't rebuy a game they've logged hundred of hours into MP on Steam just because it was DRM free now, and with the rest of their library already on Steam, are not going to be given enough of a reason to just up and move over.

GOG is probably the best alternative to Steam right now, but honestly that doesn't say much at this point. Sure, there are lots of great games on GOG, especially if you love all genres or older games, but Steam has more. A lot more. Old games, new games, indies, applications, movies, it just has more. Some of these games which will never touch GOG for technical reasons, or publisher reasons, and I get the feeling GOG doesn't want to be considered an alternative, they want to be a direct competitor. I highly doubt they'll ditch their DRM-Free rule, because that's the big difference from Steam and others, but that's why they were willing to ditch most of their other pillars.

Of course I could be wrong, a repeat of history perhaps? "GOG will never be like Steam! What fools!" only for 5 more years to pass and they overpass them? Only time will tell. I'm one the side that, GOG will be around sure, but they'll always be #2, and that's not really a bad thing. I personally use both, because I want to play games only found on Steam like Company of Heroes 2 or Insurgency.
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zeogold: I really don't think they ever will be, though.
I know I keep sounding like a pessimist whenever I say this, but come on: Does anybody REALLY think that Steam would let anybody try to touch their position now that they're at the top?
I honestly suspect that if GOG got big enough, Steam would just buy them out. And I'm not sure GOG makes enough money that they could refuse that kind of deal and get to Steam's same popularity level.
I don't really think Valve works that way. Valve seems to generally be in favour of a competitive marketplace and even doing things that potentially help the competition to varying degrees. They're one of the few distributors that have a decent size number of authorized resellers for example. They could easily just not allow resellers at all and people would have to go directly to Steam to buy Steam games, but they have many authorized resellers, and their cut of the profits on games sold through those resellers is going to be less than what they get from direct Steam purchases I surmise.

Valve has made many contributions to the Linux community both in the kernel, video drivers and other parts of the system. Some of those changes they'd be required to contribute back for GPL code, but X11 for example is MIT licensed that does not require such contributions. They've also open sourced a number of developer tools and other things that potentially help a wide range of game developers as well as competitors out there.

When they decided to create their Steam Machines, they didn't go full proprietary and exclusive, rather they created designs and made them available to pretty much any/all hardware vendors to use, and as a result there are numerous hardware vendors making machines that ultimately compete with each other. They see the value that having competitors out there provides to increase the size of the overall market and foster innovation.

So while Valve may see GOG.com as a smaller competitor, I don't really think they see GOG as a threat to their business. GOG and Steam do compete with each other in one sense, but in other senses they produce completely different value-add for different types of customers, and in certain fundamental ways this will always likely be the case. It's a big marketplace out there and there is plenty of room for many players to provide unique products and services that cater to different types of customers or niches.

I'm not sure that CDP would accept an offer from Valve to buy them out or to sell off GOG.com as companies have allegedly tried to buy GOG.com before and they were not interested in selling. Doesn't mean it can not or will not ever happen, but I think CDP+GOG have much bigger plans than selling out any time soon. About the only way a change of ownership could happen IMHO would be a hostile takeover, and while CDP is a publicly traded company in Poland I believe, I'm not sure if such a hostile takeover would be viable anyway, especially if it would harm the underlying company, which it most certainly would. Just imagine what the GOG community at large would do if Valve tried to hostile-takeover CDP? People would be setting fire to both companies in words, and leaving GOG pretty quick due to massive differences in ideology and other factors.

Just can't see something like that happening, that's not the type of company Valve is anyway. That'd be a cock move that some dickhead like Larry Ellison might try to pull, but I really don't see Valve as that type of company, and I really don't think they'll turn into that kind of company either. EA or Ubisoft is that kind of company perhaps, but I think they may have been told to go piss up a rope before. :)


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CARRiON.FLOWERS: Other mystery companies have already offered GOG money to merge, they even confirmed it in an old series of live Q&A videos. They've denied all of them because they wanted to grow it themselves.

<snip>

Of course I could be wrong, a repeat of history perhaps? "GOG will never be like Steam! What fools!" only for 5 more years to pass and they overpass them? Only time will tell. I'm one the side that, GOG will be around sure, but they'll always be #2, and that's not really a bad thing. I personally use both, because I want to play games only found on Steam like Company of Heroes 2 or Insurgency.
Quite a thorough and refreshing read which I have to completely agree with. Thanks for posting!
Post edited June 25, 2016 by skeletonbow
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zeogold: I'm not questioning how well stuff sells on DRM-free services, I'm questioning how well they sell on DRM-free services in comparison to DRM ones.
Considering available games list and date of service start (Steam was first - 2003, GOG five years later - 2008) DRM-free services is doing very well. They got their niche and when they acquire more new AAA games to their list - trust me, they will sell even better!

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zeogold: And on top of that, the Witcher games can arguably be considered outliers in the data because the games were made by a company with a DRM-free stance, meaning that of course a good deal of them, possibly even a majority, are going to be bought on DRM-free platforms.
When majority of gamer was already on Steam, they would buy it on Steam. Why bothering creating account on new service if you already have same game on Steam for the same price? But, something, turned gamers to GOG from Steam.

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zeogold: Even if it works, the frequency is no doubt less, and the likeliness of getting caught is higher, I imagine. It's still got to be easier to accomplish it without DRM than it is WITH DRM.
Judging from reports on various gaming forums this works perfectly. But let me ask: do you really think, that any sane gamer would be worried about that game he own can be pirated? And someone would play it for free? If that would be true, then games like Witcher would't be sold this well, i think.
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zeogold: He's stating his background. This is saying that he has a large amount of experience with Steam.

Who on this thread so far has said that?
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MacArthur: Am I supposed to answer this ? Is this related in any way with the point of this thread ?

That's why I say that this kind of thread are all absolutely useless and terrain for fanboying. It's all about distorting something by taking a very little part of a post and going round and round about that.
And you're not a completely blind fanboy? You have a GOG shill title for christ's sake. You don't even seem to able to read what those people you accused have actually said or actually respond to a single argument zeogold made. You seem to get triggered by anyone who has anything to say about steam that isn't just shitting on it. Fuck off you mouth breather and learn that the world is not black&white. Or better yet learn that brand loyality fueled by ignorance and hyperboles is for morons.
Post edited June 25, 2016 by Mr.Caine
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skeletonbow: When they decided to create their Steam Machines, they didn't go full proprietary and exclusive, rather they created designs and made them available to pretty much any/all hardware vendors to use, and as a result there are numerous hardware vendors making machines that ultimately compete with each other. They see the value that having competitors out there provides to increase the size of the overall market and foster innovation.
I think that decision is more about not being interested in trying to primarily make money by selling hardware units, rather than some kind of goodwill and openness. So in that sense those other hardware vendors are not even competitors to Valve, unless they come up with their own Steam-like store that is not connected to Steam.

It is the same as with Google, they also make money from running the official Android store, and advertisements, not that much by selling hardware units (Android phones). Google may have some "reference phone" like Nexus or whatever, but they are merely there to show the other HW vendors what they should be aiming at, and maybe as a plan B if the unthinkable happened and many HW vendors would suddenly leave the Android business for some reason.

Google leaves that lower-margin hardware sales thing to Huawei, Samsung, ZTE, Sony, LG etc. etc., and let them compete with each other about the hardware sales. Google gathers the cream from the top from the software sales and ads.

It is not like Samsung/Huawei/Sony/etc. are really competing with Google when selling phones, they are mostly just reinforcing Google's position.
Post edited June 25, 2016 by timppu
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CARRiON.FLOWERS: Other mystery companies have already offered GOG money to merge, they even confirmed it in an old series of live Q&A videos. They've denied all of them because they wanted to grow it themselves.

What are you asking specifically when asking this question? Do you want GOG to have a more complete client? Add DRM? Have a larger community? Have more general attraction and praise? Or are you specifically talking about the games?

Or maybe all of the above?
I love GOG for who they are, they don't have to be like Steam or any of the other competitors. They got their foot in the door by offering "good old games" and through that door probably sold a lot of the Witcher 3 The Wild Hunt.

However, they are trying to morph and change with the consumer market along with their other competitors; consider their "Movie" sales (anyone ever see a new one pop up lately?)

The are helping to foster the indie development market and while it's not quite in the spirit of "Good Old Games", there are only so many of the good old games out there, so many people who can or cannot give you permission to resell them and probably even less people these days buying them. I welcome the good old games I remember, but I also welcome the new "in development" games in which I have some ability to give feedback and mold a good game I want to play.

So, maybe we should think that we're not just here to buy "Good Old Games", but instead, to make, play, review and support "Good Old Games" of the future.
GoG cannot compete with Steam, because no "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" are being realesed here (with expection of Witcher obv.) and they are not being realesed, besause developers/publishers don't want their "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" to be DRM-free.
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Hrymr: GoG cannot compete with Steam, because no "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" are being realesed here (with expection of Witcher obv.) and they are not being realesed, besause developers/publishers don't want their "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" to be DRM-free.
Maybe it depends on how they get their funding.
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Hrymr: GoG cannot compete with Steam, because no "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" are being realesed here (with expection of Witcher obv.) and they are not being realesed, besause developers/publishers don't want their "AAA 60 DOLLA GAMES" to be DRM-free.
That's probably more true than it isn't, but there are some big name expensive games that have made it to GOG in recent years, one of the more recent being Dying Light, so not all of the publishers out there are anti-DRM-free per se. It may be the predominant business model at the moment but GOG has been helping to slowly change that.

Look at the online music industry years ago when music first started to be sold online. It was entirely DRM-only. Not very many years later we fast forward and all if not virtually all music online is now DRM-free.

I don't think we could rationally expect to see the entire video game industry go DRM-free over night, nor in a week, month or even a year, however it does appear to be a successfully growing trend and I think with GOG pushing it forward profitably and showing more and more of these big companies that DRM-free is a profitable business model that they can convince them to bring more big AAA $60 games here too.

At the same time, a lot of people have the mistaken assumption that the only thing stopping companies from releasing their games here is the DRM-free requirement and that they're not willing to give that up. There are many other things that have to come together in agreement and additional engineering work needs to be done on the games to release them here as well. Primarily because these games are mostly released on Steam these days and tightly integrated with the various services and features Steam has to offer. Some good portion of those game publishers may very well not be willing to entertain releasing their games on GOG unless they can get the same feature availability on the GOG platform. The reason many companies would do this is so that no matter where someone buys their game, they end up with the same set of features. At the moment, the Steam platform offers more features and while some gamers themselves do not necessarily care about this and may not want achievements, trading cards, badges, social networking, and other such features, many do, and many gamers expect that if they buy a game on another store it is the same game with the same features they are used to getting on a platform like Steam. Some game companies simply aren't going to consider fragmenting the market for their game between two different platforms with differing sets of features for the same product cost.

At the same time, some other companies might be perfetly comfortable doing that, in particular if their game isn't the biggest best seller and they're looking to expand their market base. But I'd be willing to suspect that many of the companies simply don't want to re-engineer their game to remove Steam features and replace them with some other platform's features because it costs a lot of money to do that for some games and they may not have the resources, or they may want to spend the resources they do have on something they perceive to be a greater return on investment.

At the moment though, while GOG is certainly working on solutions to these problems, they are not fully baked yet and while some publishers/developers are willing to embrace what we have here now, others certainly aren't and may be waiting for the platform to mature and stabilize.

It is much more complex than whether or not a company embraces the DRM-free ideology. As GOG's platform features mature and stabilize we will almost certainly see bigger and better titles show up here more often from bigger companies, and with less time-lag between the initial release of the game and it showing up here. It wont be flipping a switch and tomorrow all the big players are here, but rather it will be one company shows up and drops some games, then another, then another, then those companies drop some more games that are newer, then another company, etc. It'll be a gradual growth and it will likely increase as the platform is more capable, and as the customerbase continues to expand.

But we wont see it get there tomorrow or next month. This is a long term proposition. It'll be several years I believe until we see significant AAA content showing up here on day-0, but we'll get the odd title from time to time at increasing frequency as time goes on in the mean time.
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skeletonbow: It is much more complex than whether or not a company embraces the DRM-free ideology. As GOG's platform features mature and stabilize we will almost certainly see bigger and better titles show up here more often from bigger companies, and with less time-lag between the initial release of the game and it showing up here. It wont be flipping a switch and tomorrow all the big players are here, but rather it will be one company shows up and drops some games, then another, then another, then those companies drop some more games that are newer, then another company, etc. It'll be a gradual growth and it will likely increase as the platform is more capable, and as the customerbase continues to expand.
Thus the "Good Old Games", getting all the sloppy seconds the markets clamored over one or more years before.
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JDelekto: Thus the "Good Old Games", getting all the sloppy seconds the markets clamored over one or more years before.
If people want them and they sell, that's the main thing. I think the majority of us here appreciate that or we wouldn't buy them though. But it is an exciting day when we get special things too, new or old. The Lucasarts games, the Bethesda games, some of the WB games, Metro series, Dying Light, and many more. Sure, it's a drop in the ocean compared to Steam, but way more than anyone could have dreamed of 3-4 or more years ago. Progress is definitely being made for sure. Slower than all of us would like, but progress to be happy about nonetheless. Our day will come.

Heh, one more kind of funny thing I just realized... Percentage-wise, GOG probably has a higher AAA to Indie shovelware release ratio than Steam does regardless of how many AAA titles Steam ships. :) For every AAA title Steam ships, they ship 500 Indie crapware titles. That's why they have 12000+ games now. :)
Post edited June 25, 2016 by skeletonbow
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Mr.Caine: And you're not a completely blind fanboy? You have a GOG shill title for christ's sake. You don't even seem to able to read what those people you accused have actually said or actually respond to a single argument zeogold made. You seem to get triggered by anyone who has anything to say about steam that isn't just shitting on it.
Perhaps a bit more...eloquent...than I would have put it, but that was essentially my point to him.
However, I'd like a bit of clarification on this, since I wasn't around for whatever it was:
What is "GOG shill" supposed to mean?
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Andrey82: Considering available games list and date of service start (Steam was first - 2003, GOG five years later - 2008) DRM-free services is doing very well. They got their niche and when they acquire more new AAA games to their list - trust me, they will sell even better!
The question still stands just how GOG would manage to convince the publishers, though. I think we'd need a more substantial user base first. Or, rather, buyer base.
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Andrey82: When majority of gamer was already on Steam, they would buy it on Steam. Why bothering creating account on new service if you already have same game on Steam for the same price? But, something, turned gamers to GOG from Steam.
Um....that argument's actually kind of working against what you're saying.
I'm pretty sure the majority of gamers on Steam actually stay on Steam. Heck, even I use Steam. Sure, I PREFER GOG, but I most definitely use Steam.

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Andrey82: But let me ask: do you really think, that any sane gamer would be worried about that game he own can be pirated?
It's not the gamer who'd be worried. It's the publisher. That's what makes all the difference.
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CARRiON.FLOWERS:
Excellent, excellent points. Very informative too, I didn't know much about Steam's beginnings.
Post edited June 25, 2016 by zeogold
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JDelekto: Thus the "Good Old Games", getting all the sloppy seconds the markets clamored over one or more years before.
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skeletonbow: If people want them and they sell, that's the main thing. I think the majority of us here appreciate that or we wouldn't buy them though. But it is an exciting day when we get special things too, new or old. The Lucasarts games, the Bethesda games, some of the WB games, Metro series, Dying Light, and many more. Sure, it's a drop in the ocean compared to Steam, but way more than anyone could have dreamed of 3-4 or more years ago. Progress is definitely being made for sure. Slower than all of us would like, but progress to be happy about nonetheless. Our day will come.

Heh, one more kind of funny thing I just realized... Percentage-wise, GOG probably has a higher AAA to Indie shovelware release ratio than Steam does regardless of how many AAA titles Steam ships. :) For every AAA title Steam ships, they ship 500 Indie crapware titles. That's why they have 12000+ games now. :)
An excellent way to look at it. The Cream of the crop. :)