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Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
Some people are just corporate bootlickers. Simple as.
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davies92: Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
They may be uninformed and/or unaware of the superior alternatives. Some people simply desire a certain game, and will blindly accept all attached conditions, as to not allow for any obstacles to stand between themselves and playing said game.

Personally, I only purchase games on GOG, and with so many games already available on this platform, there has not been a need to look elsewhere. In my view, games that are not available on GOG... practically do not exist (of course, this excludes possessed physical copies of older games).
Post edited September 20, 2024 by Palestine
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davies92: Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
I'm not sure what this question is about?

Personally, i perceive DRM as an good-natured attempt to provide the same type of security towards intellectual property as for let's say. A valuable object sent towards a delivery service aimed at a certain destination. Or a money safe in someone house or company and maybe even the way a police force operates within the boundaries of a society.

Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
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davies92: Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
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Zimerius: I'm not sure what this question is about?

Personally, i perceive DRM as an good-natured attempt to provide the same type of security towards intellectual property as for let's say. A valuable object sent towards a delivery service aimed at a certain destination. Or a money safe in someone house or company and maybe even the way a police force operates within the boundaries of a society.

Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
I partialy agree with it. But you are looking on it with wrong side. It is not protection for customer but for their "investment". I bought several years ago a software with protection and then they move to subscription. I cannot use software which I pay for because their old server are off. I not paid for limited time license. It is good to protect, but it also should be in balance. If they are affraid of lost investment, then they should not release anything. I believe that if developers are good, they will be paid, even if there will be no protection. Also, if someone use paid software without paid for it, he is partially responsible for situation, where with software will be installed something that he annoy him.
1. In online multiplayer games, I feel DRM is beneficial to gamers who don't cheat, because DRM makes sure the cheaters will remain banned after they are banned. Unless they buy a new copy of the game.

If there is no DRM, then all the cheaters need to do is to create a new account with the copy of the game they have already. In essence DRM allows the publisher to ban a bought copy of a game, not only the user account.

2. For single-player games, some might feel the publisher has the right to have control of who is playing their game, to make sure no one plays a pirate copy. So basically some gamers might think "If there is no DRM, then no one would buy the game but pirate it. Right?".

I personally want online multiplayer games with DRM so that the cheaters can be kicked out, while my single-player games I want DRM-free. If the publisher shows trust towards me by not implementing DRM to a game I buy, I repay for that sign of trust by buying the game and making sure no one pirates the copy of the game I bought.
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Zimerius: Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
If you consider copy protection also as a form of DRM, I recall one reason CDPR released The Witcher 1-2 DRM-free as they noticed the copy protection did indeed make their games run considerably slower. At least I recall reading something like that a long time ago.
Post edited September 20, 2024 by timppu
I want DRM for when something is explicitly a rental with an expiration. Yes, it still causes issues (compatibility, etc), but without DRM, digital rentals wouldn't be possible at all.

But that's a very clear, narrow, and specific situation.
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timppu: I personally want online multiplayer games with DRM so that the cheaters can be kicked out, while my single-player games I want DRM-free. If the publisher shows trust towards me by not implementing DRM to a game I buy, I repay for that sign of trust by buying the game and making sure no one pirates the copy of the game I bought.
The ideal situation is bifuricated connectivity: "open" online play without restrictions (including no DRM) as the default in every multiplayer title, with some specific titles having opt-in closed online account-based play modes as well. Of course it's also important there's full parity between them.
Post edited September 20, 2024 by mqstout
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davies92: Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
It seems Denuvo got a pretty bad public reputation (because it works???), I would say most people don't care at all for others forms of DRM, including Steam, but the see Denuvo and heck, it's the devil, ruuuuuuuun!

The solution for DRM is very simple, stop using product with it. It's not like there any shortage of video games at the moment.
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davies92: I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance.
These people know perfectly well that they get exploited but are to weak minded to take the appropriate measures (e.g. not buy the game they want to play) so they come up with excuses to not look like the pitiful victims that they are. In other words, they are the perfect customers.
Post edited September 21, 2024 by hmcpretender
Well, some forms of DRM actually come with functionality. However, I can't think of anything positive to say about DRM for DRM sake.
They likely have terminal brain cancer, so their thought process is absolutely shit.
I'll bring up some arguments for DRM that I've had with pro-Steam, pro-DRM people. Just so you know I don't believe in any of this:

1. Online MP servers to punish cheaters.

Almost unavoidable, that's why I'd build on mqstout's suggestion that devs should always make online LAN or direct IP an option so that way an MP mode is always preserved regardless of what happens to online MP.

2. Punishing pirates for not paying.

My response - the game is almost always going to be pirated and tech people will always find a way to pirate it if they look around hard enough. Legitimate players are punished more with telemetry, online checks, inconveniences etc. that stripped repackaged pirated versions of games often play better than legitimate versions you have to hand money over to play.

3. "Steam did so much for PC gaming and they're enabling devpubs to feel more comfortable distributing on PC."

All companies go to where money is. With PC gaming representing 23% of video game sales, there'll always be players regardless. And we know this is true because PC gaming market is oversaturated anyway. There are tons of economic substitutes / alternative games, backlogs, etc. that are vying for people's time to play instead that devpubs entering the PC market don't have to be further enticed of protecting their IP to make a profit there. If they don't enter because of IP scares, someone else will make a good enough substitute and that's fine too.
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Zimerius: Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
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timppu: If you consider copy protection also as a form of DRM, I recall one reason CDPR released The Witcher 1-2 DRM-free as they noticed the copy protection did indeed make their games run considerably slower. At least I recall reading something like that a long time ago.
There was of course that warhammer fantasy game along the line of the King Arthur, King Lionheart tactical total war spin offs ;p with that dvd copy protection that went without support ... that did hit me... It was a nice surprise to see that title released on GoG

That's what i liked about gog in the past.... a way to relive your past !
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Zimerius: I'm not sure what this question is about?

Personally, i perceive DRM as an good-natured attempt to provide the same type of security towards intellectual property as for let's say. A valuable object sent towards a delivery service aimed at a certain destination. Or a money safe in someone house or company and maybe even the way a police force operates within the boundaries of a society.

Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
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Ra9000: I partialy agree with it. But you are looking on it with wrong side. It is not protection for customer but for their "investment". I bought several years ago a software with protection and then they move to subscription. I cannot use software which I pay for because their old server are off. I not paid for limited time license. It is good to protect, but it also should be in balance. If they are affraid of lost investment, then they should not release anything. I believe that if developers are good, they will be paid, even if there will be no protection. Also, if someone use paid software without paid for it, he is partially responsible for situation, where with software will be installed something that he annoy him.
How is that looking from the wrong side? It is in my interest if criminal elements are kept on a leash... as short as possible
Post edited September 21, 2024 by Zimerius
Because these days most people are dumb and lazy "sheep" that have been and continue to be conditioned into valuing convenience above everything else, like DRM-free, true ownership, and costumer rights in general.
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davies92: Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
The Matrix (1999), Morpheus says, "Many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it".