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davies92: Hi folks,
I've been browsing some Civilization VII forums lately and, since the announcement that the game will come bundled with Denuvo, the atmosphere has been tense. Many people are naturally frustrated, yet there is always a small number of people who will defend (quite rabidly, in some cases) the publisher's decision to add invasive DRM. I cannot understand the mindset of someone happy to install software on their machine that a.) treats a paying customer as a criminal and b.) is well-documented to have negative effects on performance. This type of DRM provides zero benefit to the consumer (despite tortured attempts by apologists to the contrary) and is quite frankly an insult. Are they paid actors or just useful idiots?
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Shmacky-McNuts: The Matrix (1999), Morpheus says, "Many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it".
Lol.... talk about context. I'm sure every minority feels like they're making a last stand against their omnipotent overlord
Only DRM can save your poor souls. Embrace it.
Always remember: Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
I think that some people still genuinely think that DRM prevents "casual" users from making copies for their friends.

While this may have been an argument to make for DRM at one time in the past, I don't think that's what people do anymore. Nobody is passing disc or disks or thumb drives around. Everything is done online.

The triple-A games that publishers are so worried about practically NEED to be online these days, whether it be simply for the multitude of patches, or for some kind of online component the game relies on.

In other words, I don't think piracy is anywhere near the problem it used to be, if only because of the nature of the online requirements of the games. Thus, if publishers opt to quit using DRM altogether, I don't think those publishers would even notice except for the fact that that their games are running better without it.

Most folks these days simply budget for a legit version of a game, and then buy it. That way they get a game that is fully patched. Or they wait for a sale.

Are there still pirates? Yes. But my view on that is: If these folks are honestly that poor that they can't afford the game, and are that desperate to play it anyway, let them have their hopelessly inferior version. I don't think they're hurting anyone, and would not be able to afford the game anyway.

Sure, there are still A-holes out there who CAN afford the games and pirate them anyway just because they can, but I don't think their numbers justify the publishers spending a fortune trying to stop them at the expense of the people who did pay for the game.

I think most people are basically good and WANT to pay for the things they enjoy. Look at how many people pay their favorite streamers voluntarily on Twitch or YouTube via Patreon or whatever.

Don't fight thieves with weapons that also inconvenience your paying customers.
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Zimerius: Personally, i perceive DRM as an good-natured attempt to provide the same type of security towards intellectual property as for let's say. A valuable object sent towards a delivery service aimed at a certain destination. Or a money safe in someone house or company and maybe even the way a police force operates within the boundaries of a society.

Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
That's a really naive way to look at it, DRM (in the SecuROM times) used to give you limited installations, it always treated the paying consumer as a threat, while pirates had every commodity available

Things are not as aggresive now, but it's basically the same shit with performance hits and still endangering game preservation

Also just because you didn't experience a bug or performance issue, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, they're well documented
rojimboo from 2010: "In brief, DRM that is ineffective at deterring copying is detrimental to the consumer, the firm and society as a whole. DRM that is effective at deterring copying is beneficial to the gamer/consumer as they experience increased product quality, innovation and social welfare."

rojimboo in 2024: "Who cares?"
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SCAwJos: Because these days most people are dumb and lazy "sheep" that have been and continue to be conditioned into valuing convenience above everything else, like DRM-free, true ownership, and costumer rights in general.
+1
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Zimerius: Personally, i perceive DRM as an good-natured attempt to provide the same type of security towards intellectual property as for let's say. A valuable object sent towards a delivery service aimed at a certain destination. Or a money safe in someone house or company and maybe even the way a police force operates within the boundaries of a society.

Also, i never identified a performance problem which was caused by DRM.
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Memecchi: That's a really naive way to look at it, DRM (in the SecuROM times) used to give you limited installations, it always treated the paying consumer as a threat, while pirates had every commodity available

Things are not as aggresive now, but it's basically the same shit with performance hits and still endangering game preservation

Also just because you didn't experience a bug or performance issue, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, they're well documented
Game preservation??? LOL !!!!!! Last time i looked, all my oldies were accounted for dear someone else. and your other point... If DRM is really that shitty it would have changed already, no-one would have accepted such nonsense for their paid products...

Nah it is time for you misguided loosers to wake up and realize you swallowed one pill to many
Some gamers erroneously think that DRM is good for the DEV/PUB, which in turn is good for the games industry. They think it is all about protection that benefits gamers, rather than an intrusion that impinges on our rights, and is all about excessive control for those providing the game.

The same folk tend to be very rigid when it comes to rules and laws, and that those who create such, can never possibly be wrong or never go too far. It's a bit like tunnel vision or viewing things with rose colored glasses.

If not for the more sensible folk, who tend to see many rules and laws as just guidelines, we'd still be living in the Dark Ages.

Reason and Logic is always more important than man made rules and laws and notions. But you just can't tell some folk who live by blind faith.
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Zimerius: Game preservation??? LOL !!!!!! Last time i looked, all my oldies were accounted for dear someone else. and your other point... If DRM is really that shitty it would have changed already, no-one would have accepted such nonsense for their paid products...

Nah it is time for you misguided loosers to wake up and realize you swallowed one pill to many
No, if a human or a certain crowd is believing into something, a strict faith, they will proudly do the "wrong stuff" for a eternity, no matter "how wrong" it may become at a certain point. So, yes, humans are willing to accept very ugly things if their faith is being served doing so. Rationality or science is no use if there is a strong believe related to "what is right or wrong".

If those humans think, it is right oppressing and controlling themself because "they need guidance and punishment, and someone need to protect them from their own thievery, misery and damage" then they obviously not only got a inferior opinion about themself or other humans surrounding them. They even are willingly accepting boundaries that are removing their freedom and rights, as they simply are not worthy being trusted nor empowered with anything that goes beyond those boundaries... for example "ownership": Which is in fact reduced the hard way already because a few % of humans do own almost anything and the crowd is "accepting it" as they feel inferior and not worthy to experience freedom and trust. Nothing to be taken lightly because it is a heavy burden accepting this believe and bad opinion about themself.

Whats clear, having such a bad opinion about themself is putting those affected into a stinking sinkhole and surely putting shackles on their hands, which, in long term surely is not good for humankind as they are unable to empower themself and will always not become much more than slaves with way to much boundaries.

The real poverty is not your lack of fiat-money, it is your weak mind unable to see anything which goes beyond the usual small horizon a common slave is capable of. This is why most humans, in the end are poor... not because of lack of fiat-coins.

But, as it has been told by "big thinkers" already... "you will own nothing and be happy" (and in small letters... you can not be trusted anyway, nor are you worthy of it... but lets not make them even more small, they may get a inferiority complex after).
Post edited September 22, 2024 by Xeshra
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Zimerius: Game preservation??? LOL !!!!!! Last time i looked, all my oldies were accounted for dear someone else. and your other point... If DRM is really that shitty it would have changed already, no-one would have accepted such nonsense for their paid products...

Nah it is time for you misguided loosers to wake up and realize you swallowed one pill to many
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Xeshra: No, if a human or a certain crowd is believing into something, a strict faith, they will proudly do the "wrong stuff" for a eternity, no matter "how wrong" it may become at a certain point. So, yes, humans are willing to accept very ugly things if their faith is being served doing so. Rationality or science is no use if there is a strong believe related to "what is right or wrong".

If those humans think, it is right oppressing and controlling themself because "they need guidance and punishment, and someone need to protect them from their own thievery, misery and damage" then they obviously not only got a inferior opinion about themself or other humans surrounding them. They even are willingly accepting boundaries that are removing their freedom and rights, as they simply are not worthy being trusted nor empowered with anything that goes beyond those boundaries... for example "ownership": Which is in fact reduced the hard way already because a few % of humans do own almost anything and the crowd is "accepting it" as they feel inferior and not worthy to experience freedom and trust. Nothing to be taken lightly because it is a heavy burden accepting this believe and bad opinion about themself.

Whats clear, having such a bad opinion about themself is putting those affected into a stinking sinkhole and surely putting shackles on their hands, which, in long term surely is not good for humankind as they are unable to empower themself and will always not become much more than slaves with way to much boundaries.

The real poverty is not your lack of fiat-money, it is your weak mind unable to see anything which goes beyond the usual small horizon a common slave is capable of. This is why most humans, in the end are poor... not because of lack of fiat-coins.

But, as it has been told by "big thinkers" already... "you will own nothing and be happy" (and in small letters... you can not be trusted anyway, nor are you worthy of it... but lets not make them even more small, they may get a inferiority complex after).
Hahahahahahaha

like really? sure ..... said every so called wronged individual ever. Talk about misconceptions in wrong and right. How dare you I wonder ? for the sake of discussion i will oblige but know this... your logic is flawed.

Big Thinkers .... Humans... certain crowds ... man i can't get even near the amount of personal interpretation you use to create an illusion of self-management!!!

2 simple truths, life is unfair. Free will is a farce.
If you combine those 2 factors then you'd understand why groups behave like they do and why they need rules and guides they can adhere too. If you think that those rules inhibit their free will, you are completely crazy. That shit starts at birth when you are identified as a member of society.

Everything you try explain afterward, i would suggest you leave that for your college discussion groups your probably part off.

and please leave it at this or i seriously will start to consider the truth that you are in deep need of some self acknowledgment...

in a horrendous way
Post edited September 22, 2024 by Zimerius
Oh, i would say i agree with those 2 insights: Life is unfair and free will is a farce.

I do not make "freedom" out of it because the meaning goes beyond someones will. Willpower is something that can be set up by humans or other entities, so it is not a coincidence.

Freedom is a huge thing but ultimately it can only truly be achieved if we lose every attachment, not any sooner than this. A relationship is always with some kind of attachment, but in many cases we are doing this at our "free will" so we are on purpose eliminating some of our freedom, for the sake of what we love. If people only love freedom, they can actually love nothing and everything, but nothing certain... so i can not describe freedom with any known logic... in this term in order to explain freedom i will have to leave the logics behind, thus my logics will become flawed, i do agree.

Anyway, i try to become as independent, actually autarkical, as possible, which means, reducing my dependency on others as big as possible. This means, standing up for myself... for my family, for the stuff i love and trying to create a decentralized approach which will lead to more power into my own and everyones hands, instead of a few centralized mighty poles. This is basically the meaning of a meaningful "independence" thus providing myself and like-minded people with sufficient power overcoming many situation without the, not always reliable, help from the outside, the sheeps or its herders. In many cases... those sheeps and herders will only move if something they believe into is with sufficient power, for example the amount of fiat-coins they get. So it is good being sufficiently provided with, else they may barely help. Independence is related to freedom, removing a lot of dependency.

We are not born "free", not even necessarily with a will that is free because we are simply to heavily connected with the environment and with the things, and not a thing, allowing us to survive. So basically, in some way we are already "owned by birth"; owned by society and owned by the people making us survive. No matter what we think, most of our wishful thinking is already influenced by our environment. So, anyone able to create a impact on us... including Zimerius which got his impact most likely from the industry he seems to "look up" to it in order to support them in the apparently most humble way possible, accepting their supreme power and therefor his own lack of it; including the agreement asking for controlling his own wrong paths he may not even know himself how to control properly... saving him from "running out of control". Which is usually the power many humans give to a even higher entity but okay... the believe is apparently free already.

Yet, the thing with free will is not so much a matter of absolutism but if we are able to willingly connect tho those truly loving us and willingly creating a bond with us, So, it is not so much about "those absolute terms"... there is not a single human who can be trusted with absolute power, it is simply not a human thing having so much power, it will always create troubles. Our will is important for the stuff we actually can create a stronger bond with, not for everything that is accessible... which we have no competence toward it.

Life is not fair but life is not about fairness, it is more about creating more harmony instead of disharmony or simply to make something unfair a bit less unfair, simply to support life. Sure, if there is insufficient power from those able to grant power, in order to increase fairness... it will become thrown out of this harmony and not sure where it will end, in the end with a lot of disharmony. Perhaps, in some very far future, humankind my slowly lurk out of the ashes their disharmony was creating, but it is uncertain for how many times we could rebuild a empire... until this option may ultimately be gone because of even bigger issues. So... value your unfair life... your non absolute free will which is only focused on the things you may barely become competent with (still not sure) and be a good sheep or human in the here and now. If you can not support other humans, at least do not put a huge rock in front of their feet... this is called "being social"; not much more than this. If we can not decide what is right or wrong, most likely everything got its pros and cons... yet... reality is, certain things are way more common, so we do not value diversity, which is in my mind the key to harmony and meaningful competition.
Post edited September 22, 2024 by Xeshra
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Memecchi: That's a really naive way to look at it, DRM (in the SecuROM times) used to give you limited installations, it always treated the paying consumer as a threat, while pirates had every commodity available

Things are not as aggresive now, but it's basically the same shit with performance hits and still endangering game preservation

Also just because you didn't experience a bug or performance issue, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, they're well documented
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Zimerius: Game preservation??? LOL !!!!!! Last time i looked, all my oldies were accounted for dear someone else. and your other point... If DRM is really that shitty it would have changed already, no-one would have accepted such nonsense for their paid products...

Nah it is time for you misguided loosers to wake up and realize you swallowed one pill to many
What are you even doing on GOG? I'm sure you can find other, more interesting ways to pass time that coming to a DRM-free platform to call people losers

Also damn do I miss the report button