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General discussionWhy the 4gb file limit still?(59 posts)(59 posts)
(59 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 27, 2024
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Whiskermew: Why are offline downloads still broken down into 4gb files? Operating systems have supported 4gb+ files for years. It would be nice for offline installers to have larger files vs so many 4gb files to download. Baldur's Gate 3 for example is 32 files to download.
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SargonAelther: Would you rather download 30 4GB files successfully and have the 31st fail and get corrupted? Or would you rather download 90% of one 128GB file and have it fail, and get corrupted, so you would have to start over from scratch?
THAT IS THE POINT. Compatibility with FAT32 is also a bonus.
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Hurricane0440: Personally, I don't see a problem with the installer files being split into 4GB parts. My only gripe is that I have to individually click on each file part to download them instead of having one big "download all" button. It's quite inconvenient and that's partly why I use lgogdownloader now to download my offline installers.
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SargonAelther: I use GOGREPOC, but to be fair to GOG, Galaxy lets you download offline installers in one go too. People sometimes seem to forget that you can download offline installers via Galaxy.

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V0idhead: After buying The Talos Principle 2 I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the offline Installer for that game is a single 77GB file.
So I guess the limit isn't universal anymore.
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SargonAelther: What are you talking about? It is in 21 parts for the base game. Eight parts for the DLC. Did you look at it via Galaxy, rather than the website? Galaxy shows the cumulative size, but will download the same split bins.

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scientiae: Right.

My monthly download cap is 50GB. So I would have to get a refund, if I bought that game.
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SargonAelther: It is NOT a single file. It is split, just like all the other Windows installers, so you could safely spread out the download. Although I must admit that a data cap in 2024 sounds unusual to me, outside of maybe some mobile phone contracts.
I have unlimited, uncapped wifi, but I live in a bleak-ass area with Doom Clouds lurking over mountain ranges, so using Galaxy to download offline installers has been a *huge stress reliever since you can restart your downloads from where they left off if they should fail. (People like "Galaxy?! I won't touch that demon app!! That's how they steal your valuable data and track you!!" as they feed Google info on one their literal handheld tracking device. XD )
Posted December 07, 2024
Recently came across another argument for "reasonable" maximum file sizes:

Disk Defragmentation

When defragmenting a disk using an algorithm that re-orders files for best performance (as in MyDefrag's Monthly Defrag), each file that needs optimising is moved twice - once from its original location into spare space (usually at the end of the disk) and again from spare space back to its "optimum placement" location. As other files will usually need to be moved out of the "optimum placement" space first, large files can involve a lot of location shuffling - especially if your disk is nearly full.

If you don't have enough disk space free to handle the worst case scenario (which would be moving the two largest files present) then defragmentation will (a) take ages and (b) will probably end unfinished. So have a "mere" 4GB filesize can be helpful here.
Posted December 07, 2024
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AstralWanderer: -snip-
Spinning rust, sure. On a solid state drive, not such a good idea in most cases.
Not really applicable these days; to the point that defragmentation software is slowly going extinct outside of low level utilities.
Posted December 08, 2024
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dnovraD: Spinning rust, sure. On a solid state drive, not such a good idea in most cases.
Not really applicable these days; to the point that defragmentation software is slowly going extinct outside of low level utilities.
My GOG installers take something like 12TB already, and that is only the Windows English versions of the installers.
I think the biggest SSDs they sell nowadays are 4TB. The extra speed of SSD is largely irrelevant for longtime storage and archiving, and the fact that SSDs need to be powered up from time to time in order not to lose data also talks against using them for offline archiving.

(Downloading your games is kinda the point of offline installers, ie. you can keep your games even if you lose internet or the store closes for good.)
Posted December 08, 2024
The 4 GB data limit is good because if there is any failure there might only be a 4 GB file affected and not the whole data. It is as well better making some data partition in general. Several drives are better than one single drive, in case of failure... because not the entire data would be lost after.

About SSD i can not say how long it will last. Because i never had any "data corruption" there. The only issue i ever had is a failing controller and a bad firmware. Ultimately both can produce a failing drive, long before there is any data corruption visible.

HDDs are more "sneaky"... it can fail all of a sudden and in many terms there is a low visibility. In general, as soon as there is ANY failure visible, for example block errors... the drive is DONE. No need to bother with anymore. Use another drive with a backup, put that data on a completely new HDD... and use warranty for any drive showing any kind of error. Error tolerance is zero because it is already hard detecting a faulty HDD and any visible failure is already "critical".

Anyway, it is still not common having faulty HDDs. As far as i remember i had about 2 or 3 faulty HDDs with block errors in my life... out of about 10 times as much drives. But if it happens it is always a big mess... and of course with increased age the risk is going up a lot.

In general, for a backup HDD i would say 10 years of age is considered the limit, after this timeline the drive should become replaced. However... some of the old models still using air filling, especially from Hitachi, are surely very well made... as a backup drive (not used daily) those air filled drives (less than 10 TB size) surely can safely become used up to 15 years. The "modern" Helium filled drives (basically any drive above 10 TB size is a Helium drive) they should not be used above 10 years... as a security measurement. Even if they work reliable, Helium can not be sufficiently sealed for way more than 10 years.

SSD, as i told already... i am very unsure for how long they can sustain data without powering up, but it is more likely their controller may simple fail at some point, according to my experience. The NAND is usually not the weak spot. It could be different for slow external drives, but for the fast M2 internal SSDs i only worry the controllers and a hot running controller will surely decrease the lifetime: Good cooling is always useful.

However, related to my newest PC, the drive temperatures are in general pretty good (which was not free doing so by adding good cooling): For external HDD and SSD, around 30-50 C, internal HDD around 40 C, internal SSD between 50 and 60 C. The only internal SSD with bad temperature is a 990 Pro which is constantly at around 65 C or even higher. Not sure the issue there... but it seems the contact with the heatsink is maybe bad, as the controller is "more flat" than its NAND, which is not a good architecture as it may produce weak cooling if the pad is unable to attach properly.

Even the T700 SSD, which is the best performer... is running cooler (50-60 C) on my build than the 990 Pro. Still, so far the 990 Pro is working properly... and perhaps the reading out is inaccurate... hard to say. Perhaps at some point i may replace it, but not in a hurry.
Post edited December 08, 2024 by Xeshra
Posted December 08, 2024
Does this mean that downloading a game like Baldur's Gate 3 would require downloading 20+ installation files?
Posted December 08, 2024
Similarly like old OS are not supported, I hope, that we will drop also 4 GB per file limit as new systems will not have to use FAT32 anymore. ISP provide better services as time goes by etc. Basically reasons are historical and altough there is different evolution in different parts of the world, it is getting better everywhere (except for some extreme places, where people have to deal with other problems first).
Posted December 08, 2024
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davies92: Does this mean that downloading a game like Baldur's Gate 3 would require downloading 20+ installation files?
Sure... does it matter? Just download several files at once... i usually download 4 at once but even more is possible. However... a HDD is not a good choice for multiple downloads, so always use a SSD for such a task. It can then be moved to a HDD after.
Post edited December 08, 2024 by Xeshra
Posted December 08, 2024
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davies92: Does this mean that downloading a game like Baldur's Gate 3 would require downloading 20+ installation files?
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Xeshra: Sure... does it matter? Just download several files at once... i usually download 4 at once but even more is possible. However... a HDD is not a good choice for multiple downloads, so always use a SSD for such a task. It can then be moved to a HDD after.
It just seems unnecessarily cumbersome when literally every other provider I can think of allows you to download one single file. I haven't used a HDD for around 10 years.
Posted December 08, 2024
Not that i think of... on any other "provider" you simply get a finished "game install", comparable to a Galaxy-install, which is a folder with in some terms over 100 000 files. You can as well put those 4 GB files into a single folder and then consider it "one single file", if your mind is enjoying "this trick". Or you can ZIP those 4 GB files into one single ZIP file, so you do not even have a folder anymore if it still is bothering you having so many files inside a folder.

It depends on how you look at...
Post edited December 08, 2024 by Xeshra
Posted December 08, 2024
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Xeshra: Not that i think of... on any other "provider" you simply get a finished "game install", comparable to a Galaxy-install, which is a folder with in some terms over 100 000 files. You can as well put those 4 GB files into a single folder and then consider it "one single file", if your mind is enjoying "this trick". Or you can ZIP those 4 GB files into one single ZIP file, so you do not even have a folder anymore if it still is bothering you having so many files inside a folder.

It depends on how you look at...
Perhaps when davies92 says a single file, he means the principle of it - that other providers offer the entire download in a single click; including those where the installer is one file, the many game files are just compressed into one folder, or what have you. It seems cumbersome because the process is not automated, the user has to manually download and then run each installation file in order. Not that this is a problem to do manually (when the number of games is small), but it could even be automated if the user is willing and able. But that's not the point, the argument is that other services have elevated the standard of expectation.
Posted December 08, 2024
For me it is impossible to do it "automated"... so i can not be lazy. Although, in order to not waste more time than i can spare... (which is still several days each PC install... it is 400 games, mind it) i have EVERY game always installed in a huge library. As soon as it is done i basically only need to make some changes in order to update a game.

Anyway, yes i need to do it manually because a lot of games need specialized fixes, mods and settings, than can not be done automated. I only do it once each PC... and i do not have a new PC sooner than once very 5 years.

However... i think there are some "outside GOG" tools able to make a lot of stuff automated as well on GOG, including GOG Galaxy and i guess the Heroic launcher is well known. Offline installers is a backup and for those who do want to make it manually.

Again, in order to make it happen it surely will need every game always installed. Any other approach would be too demanding. So it will need a huge SSD space...

Sure, making it more manually than what i do is not possible but it got the advantage of a verified and working custom solution, no more custom possible.
Post edited December 08, 2024 by Xeshra
Posted December 08, 2024
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Xeshra: Not that i think of... on any other "provider" you simply get a finished "game install", comparable to a Galaxy-install, which is a folder with in some terms over 100 000 files. You can as well put those 4 GB files into a single folder and then consider it "one single file", if your mind is enjoying "this trick". Or you can ZIP those 4 GB files into one single ZIP file, so you do not even have a folder anymore if it still is bothering you having so many files inside a folder.

It depends on how you look at...
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SultanOfSuave: Perhaps when davies92 says a single file, he means the principle of it - that other providers offer the entire download in a single click; including those where the installer is one file, the many game files are just compressed into one folder, or what have you. It seems cumbersome because the process is not automated, the user has to manually download and then run each installation file in order. Not that this is a problem to do manually (when the number of games is small), but it could even be automated if the user is willing and able. But that's not the point, the argument is that other services have elevated the standard of expectation.
Thank you for explaining clearly and calmly the meaning behind what I posted. I learnt long ago that some people seek confrontation in literally anything and the best thing to do is not engage.
Posted December 08, 2024
Folks on forum like projecting.
Posted December 08, 2024
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Xeshra: The only internal SSD with bad temperature is a 990 Pro which is constantly at around 65 C or even higher. Not sure the issue there... but it seems the contact with the heatsink is maybe bad, as the controller is "more flat" than its NAND, which is not a good architecture as it may produce weak cooling if the pad is unable to attach properly.

Even the T700 SSD, which is the best performer... is running cooler (50-60 C) on my build than the 990 Pro. Still, so far the 990 Pro is working properly... and perhaps the reading out is inaccurate... hard to say. Perhaps at some point i may replace it, but not in a hurry.
Do you have the latest firmware for it? Specifically says "To address reports of high temperatures logged on Samsung Magician." And mine's nowhere near that, see attachment.
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Community
General discussionWhy the 4gb file limit still?(59 posts)(59 posts)
(59 posts)