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General discussionWhy is GoG so unfriendly toward Linux?(206 posts)(206 posts)
(206 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 31, 2021
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chaostheory6682: As time goes on GoG has actually gotten less friendly toward the Linux community rather than better.
GOG is probably trying to save money, and doesn't believe Linux gamers bring that much extra revenue, considering how even on Steam so low percentage of gamers appear to be Linux gamers according to the surveys (I am one of them, though; both on Steam and GOG, I play my Steam and GOG games both on Windows 10 and Linux Mint).

The reason Valve invests so much more to Linux gaming is probably because they are currently in the dominant position in PC gaming, and they fear Microsoft will try to oust them from that position over time with Windows Store. So Valve invests to Linux gaming as their plan B, so that they are less dependent on Microsoft's goodwill, and that they have at least some kind of ability to switch away from Windows, if needed. They are trying to strengthen Linux as a viable alternative for PC gamers already beforehand.

Steam Deck is yet another investment from Valve to Linux gaming, as they decided to built it upon Linux (SteamOS), rather than Windows. Most other PC gaming handhelds seem to have chosen to stick to Windows, probably because they don't have any other choice (they don't have their own services like Valve does, which allows people to play their Windows games on Linux etc.).
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ChuckBeaver: The native linux support is usually supplied. The games that would use Wine are a waste of their time, because chances are. You will already use something that does the job with a windows version. Like Lutris. So they figure why hire someone to do it when chances are a freebie will present itself.
That's a good point too.

Many of the so-called "Linux versions" apparently are the Windows version with WINE. To me that seems kinda pointless, I could just as well try to run the Windows version with WINE myself, with Lutris or whatever.

I couldn't get the "GOG Linux version" of Two Worlds to run in Linux at all (some missing dependency that is not supported in Linux Mint 19 anymore or something like that...), I had better success getting the Windows version run with WINE. Better, not perfect, as I haven't yet figured out how to get the audio work... It otherwise works fine, but is silent. This seems to be a known problem with the game, not only the GOG version.
Post edited October 31, 2021 by timppu
Posted October 31, 2021
The gog galaxy 2.0 version seems to be still in development for linux.

I don't think they are in the steamdeck cd project going to miss the opportunity to do something around linux.
Posted October 31, 2021
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Because CDP became mico$oft shills.
Post edited October 31, 2021 by novumZ
Posted November 01, 2021
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chaostheory6682: As time goes on GoG has actually gotten less friendly toward the Linux community rather than better.
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timppu: GOG is probably trying to save money, and doesn't believe Linux gamers bring that much extra revenue, considering how even on Steam so low percentage of gamers appear to be Linux gamers according to the surveys (I am one of them, though; both on Steam and GOG, I play my Steam and GOG games both on Windows 10 and Linux Mint).

The reason Valve invests so much more to Linux gaming is probably because they are currently in the dominant position in PC gaming, and they fear Microsoft will try to oust them from that position over time with Windows Store. So Valve invests to Linux gaming as their plan B, so that they are less dependent on Microsoft's goodwill, and that they have at least some kind of ability to switch away from Windows, if needed. They are trying to strengthen Linux as a viable alternative for PC gamers already beforehand.

Steam Deck is yet another investment from Valve to Linux gaming, as they decided to built it upon Linux (SteamOS), rather than Windows. Most other PC gaming handhelds seem to have chosen to stick to Windows, probably because they don't have any other choice (they don't have their own services like Valve does, which allows people to play their Windows games on Linux etc.).
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ChuckBeaver: The native linux support is usually supplied. The games that would use Wine are a waste of their time, because chances are. You will already use something that does the job with a windows version. Like Lutris. So they figure why hire someone to do it when chances are a freebie will present itself.
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timppu: That's a good point too.

Many of the so-called "Linux versions" apparently are the Windows version with WINE. To me that seems kinda pointless, I could just as well try to run the Windows version with WINE myself, with Lutris or whatever.

I couldn't get the "GOG Linux version" of Two Worlds to run in Linux at all (some missing dependency that is not supported in Linux Mint 19 anymore or something like that...), I had better success getting the Windows version run with WINE. Better, not perfect, as I haven't yet figured out how to get the audio work... It otherwise works fine, but is silent. This seems to be a known problem with the game, not only the GOG version.
Maybe install winetricks and also make sure to add .net and .i386 libraries. People forget to add the 32bit libraries(i386) thinking everyhing is modern....but not everything.
Posted November 01, 2021
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novumZ: Because CDP became mico$oft shills.
Or maybe cause no one cares about linux, 1% market share.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Truth007
Posted November 01, 2021
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chaostheory6682: As time goes on GoG has actually gotten less friendly toward the Linux community rather than better. Personally this has resulted in me using the platform and store much less. Sometimes, and too often, they even refuse to offer versions of games that have Linux native options available. When going to a game's website or to Steam, you will see that a Linux version is available, but when you see the same game on this platform it excludes the Linux option.
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AB2012: Lack of Galaxy on Linux may be GOG's fault but the Steam = Win + Linux vs GOG = Win only situation is often due to the fact a 3rd party publisher was hired to make a Linux version and they refuse to do a DRM-Free one. [url=https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Company:Virtual_Programming]Virtual Programming[/url] in particular are well known for that (eg, Bioshock Infinite, Saints Row 3-4, etc).

As for Linux market share, clearly there's something going on that has caused Valve to take Linux seriously enough to really push Proton in spite of market share (possibly long-term insurance against Microsoft doing something stupid in future like deprecating "legacy" DirectX5-11 or Win32 or 32-bit WOW or locking down Windows into a UWP only world or some other unforeseen move that could potentially cripple old games on Windows-only stores outright). And if the Steam Deck is really successful, that may well change the situation too. DRM-Free games should naturally go well with DRM-Free OS's though, not one or the other.
What are you getting at with Linux's market share?


The answer appears obvious to me. Steam is many times larger than GOG, so they have more money to throw at obscure market niches.
Posted November 01, 2021
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chaostheory6682: As time goes on GoG has actually gotten less friendly toward the Linux community rather than better. Personally this has resulted in me using the platform and store much less. Sometimes, and too often, they even refuse to offer versions of games that have Linux native options available. When going to a game's website or to Steam, you will see that a Linux version is available, but when you see the same game on this platform it excludes the Linux option. This is very frustrating. I wish they would do better by Linux gamers -- and at least make an attempt to offer Linux versions if they are available. Instead it is starting to look like they are engaged in some sort of silent cold war against Linux that has only gotten worse with time.
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Lethargus: There are too few Linux users on gog. Therefore they won't put any ressources in develloping for Linux. If gog sees that there are more and more users that switch to linux, there will be more support for linux. Steam has more money and Microsofts is one of their biggest competition. Therefore they invest more in linux in hope that the users also switch the system.
Too few users with loud voices. Many of the new releases usually has a voice pipe in about yes/no linux versions
Posted November 01, 2021
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timppu: I haven't yet figured out how to get the audio work.
According to my notes:
needs "winetricks xact" or no sound.
That was written before I updated everything to 6.0. If using wine >= 5.0, you may also need to manually add native dll overrides for xactengine3_0 through xactengine3_7 or it will crash. I just tested with and without full xact override on 6.0.1, and it actually has sound, but crashes when loading or starting a game. With the full xact override, it works fine.

edit; hit post too soon:

Also, I used to make a generic statement like "some games just package Windows versions with Wine" as well, but I've only found a few games so far that do: Two Worlds, Septerra Core, Enclave, and the pre-BeamDog BG, BG2, PS:T (I think the BeamDog versions use winelib, so I'd avoid those as well, but that's just me, and actually I just avoid the BeamDog versions entirely).
Post edited November 01, 2021 by darktjm
Posted November 01, 2021
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Truth007: Or maybe cause no one cares about linux, 1% market share.
Yeah, but you need to look at the big picture. If you want to maintain games long term, with Windows, you don't have access to the source code of the game and you don't have access to the internals of the platform they run on.

That makes it mighty hard to work on any kind of forward compatibility unless the game dev is doing it.

With Linux, you might still not have access to the source code of the games, but you have access to the internals of the platform they run on at least (except for the gpus who are still running wild to a large extent, I really wish they could be tamed into some kind of standard). That gives you one foot to stand on.

What Wine is doing, where they are emulating a platform without access to neither the source code of the applications nor the internals of the platform they run on is kind of crazy.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
Posted November 01, 2021
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Truth007: Or maybe cause no one cares about linux, 1% market share.
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Magnitus: Yeah, but you need to look at the big picture. If you want to maintain games long term, with Windows, you don't have access to the source code of the game and you don't have access to the internals of the platform they run on.

That makes it mighty hard to work on any kind of forward compatibility unless the game dev is doing it.

With Linux, you might still not have access to the source code of the games, but you have access to the internals of the platform they run on at least (except for the gpus who are still running wild to a large extent, I really wish they could be tamed into some kind of standard). That gives you one foot to stand on.

What Wine is doing, where they are emulating a platform without access to neither the source code of the applications nor the internals of the platform they run on is kind of crazy.
You do know not many people on planet Earth know how to code so the Source Code is useless for them.

Most PC video gamers who use Windows do not even program or develop their own video games.

Linux PC video gamers are just loud mouths who think the rest of planet Earth programs like them or something like that.

Windows for most PC video gamers is just install Windows, install the{C versions of the video games on Windows ad play and not worry about anything else.
Posted November 01, 2021
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Johnathanamz: You do know not many people on planet Earth know how to code so the Source Code is useless for them.
There are two things about the source code.

At whatever point the code can be made publicly available (usually when copyright expires), it makes it much easier to make whatever adjustment you got to make in the code to make the application run on current platforms for everyone else.

Even if the code cannot be publicly shared, if you're working on some kind of compatibility layer for everyone to run the game on, its much easier to do if you can look at the code and figure out all the calls it is making to the system.

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Johnathanamz: Linux PC video gamers are just loud mouths who think the rest of planet Earth programs like them or something like that.
I'm not gonna go there.

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Johnathanamz: Windows for most PC video gamers is just install Windows, install the{C versions of the video games on Windows ad play and not worry about anything else.
Sure, and that's ideally what we are aiming for for our end-users in software. Plug & play.

However, it starts with being able to run the software at all (plug & play or not) and this is what is at risk here. Being able to correctly run the software in the future.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
Posted November 01, 2021
Linux is used by tens of millions of people, not exactly a niche product. And the only reason they are under-represented here on GoG is because GoG goes out of its way to ensure that using Linux is way more difficult than it needs to be.

And now that Valve has put even more weight behind its Linux initiative those numbers are likely to keep getting higher.

GoG will benefit from their work, but GoG will also be years behind their competitors (is years behind), and I'm betting they are going to regret that decision.
Posted November 01, 2021
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chaostheory6682: Linux is used by tens of millions of people, not exactly a niche product. And the only reason they are under-represented here on GoG is because GoG goes out of its way to ensure that using Linux is way more difficult than it needs to be.

And now that Valve has put even more weight behind its Linux initiative those numbers are likely to keep getting higher.

GoG will benefit from their work, but GoG will also be years behind their competitors (is years behind), and I'm betting they are going to regret that decision.
Oh really tens of millions of people use Linux?

Is that why the Department of Defense here in the United States of America at the Pentagon upgraded ten million PC's from Windows XP or whatever to Windows 10 in 2016 after Windows 10 was out in July of 2015?
Posted November 01, 2021
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Johnathanamz: Oh really tens of millions of people use Linux?

Is that why the Department of Defense here in the United States of America at the Pentagon upgraded ten million PC's from Windows XP or whatever to Windows 10 in 2016 after Windows 10 was out in July of 2015?
If you include the world-wide developer population, the figure is not too far-fetched.

The estimated figure I recall reading is 2% of the desktop share. How many desktop users do you think there are world-wide? Quite a few...

I won't argue that it's a relatively small slice of the desktop pie, but still, if you want some independence from the whims of a single corporate overlord (in the case of Windows, Microsoft and in the case of MacOS, Apple), which any vendor craves (especially giants like Google and Steam), Linux is the main game in town.

If a mainstream desktop gaming alternative appears in the upcoming years, it will most likely be based on it (some new custom Linux distribution or otherwise a separate fork of Linux with various adaptations... that's what Android is btw).

People often talk about technicalities (and they do matter), but ultimately, its the social significance of a mature, battle-tested and free (both as in free beer and free speech) OS that is huge.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
Posted November 01, 2021
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Johnathanamz: Oh really tens of millions of people use Linux?

Is that why the Department of Defense here in the United States of America at the Pentagon upgraded ten million PC's from Windows XP or whatever to Windows 10 in 2016 after Windows 10 was out in July of 2015?
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Magnitus: If you include the world-wide developer population, the figure is not too far-fetched.

The estimated figure I recall reading is 2% of the desktop share. How many desktop users do you think there are world-wide? Quite a few...

I won't argue that it's a relatively small slice of the desktop pie, but still, if you want some independence from the whims of a single corporate overlord (in the case of Windows, Microsoft and in the case of MacOS, Apple), which any vendor craves (especially giants like Google and Steam), Linux is the main game in town.

If a mainstream desktop gaming alternative appears in the upcoming years, it will most likely be based on it (some new custom Linux distribution or otherwise a separate fork of Linux with various adaptations... that's what Android is btw).

People often talk about technicalities (and they do matter), but ultimately, its the social significance of a mature, battle-tested and free (both as in free beer and free speech) OS that is huge.
By 2015 when MicroSoft released Windows 10 there were 1 billion PC's world wide that still had Windows XP installed.

Linux is only 1% of the PC video games market on Steam and I expect in the next five months it will go back down to 90% or 80%.

Also look at China a country where the Chinese communist party has strict control you would think people would use Linux more in China so MicroSoft does not spy on then, but Windows is the most pirated Operating System (OS) in China.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhy is GoG so unfriendly toward Linux?(206 posts)(206 posts)
(206 posts)