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General discussionWhy are there no story-driven isometric ARPGs?(34 posts)(34 posts)
(34 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 04, 2016
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Ricky_Bobby: On a side-note:

The 'good game but ...' argument is a wishy-washy excuse people use when they are afraid to stand out.

If the game was good you would be playing or enjoying the game, yet obviously there is something wrong with the game that is severe enough that it keeps you from playing it or enjoying it. In other words it's not actually a 'good game' after all.
But the OP didn't necessarily say that these people don't play or enjoy Fallout 4, just that they nitpick about what genre it's in. And even so, just because you don't like a game due to your personal preferences (e.g. you exclusively play CRPGs and don't like FPS games), doesn't mean that it's a bad game, just not your cup of tea.
Posted December 04, 2016
Perhaps the already mentioned Divine Divinity, and surely Inquisition. Oh, and Lionheart. The latter two had Diablo-like combat despite being story-rich games. Both are marred by it (the combat, not the story). Not sure about DD, never played past the first ten or so minutes. I do recommend Inquisition regardless, I think it would have been a classic had it went turn-based or at least RTwP.
Posted December 04, 2016
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doady: Divine Divinity and Sacred 2 are not isometric.
Hahahaha. Ok I forgot Sacred 2 was done in actual 3D perspective projection... But Divine Divinity? Where would you get that it's not Isometric?

Also, why exclude 3/4 view 3D games from the list since 3/4 view perspective is the natural progression of isometric games? It's the same game made with better technology, like Titan Quest or Victor Vran.
Posted December 04, 2016
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paladin181: Divine Divinity, Sacred 1 and Sacred 2, all say hello.
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doady: Divine Divinity and Sacred 2 are not isometric.
Yes they are.
Posted December 04, 2016
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Aaronjw13: "a good game, but not a role-playing game." Usually what people mean by that is that there are few meaningful story decisions made by the player.
That may be one way to define a roleplaying game (ie. a branching story), but I don't agree with that definition.

Wing Commander had a branching story (if you lose a mission, you don't necessarily face game over, but go to another mission/story branch, and might even be able to recover back to the winning branch if you do fine), but I don't consider that as RPG, or even an RPG element in a space combat game. It is just... a branching story, that's all.

Or the "choose your adventure" type of games or interactive thingamalings, where you make decisions on key points of the story, and the story branches on those. Still not a RPG necessarily.

If I understood it right, I mostly agree with dtgreene definition of a RPG. A story may even be totally optional for a RPG.


Now back to Diablo-clones... they are not called RPGs, but action-RPGs. Meaning, they are hybrids of two main genres: action, and RPG. To me that sounds pretty fitting for such games because they indeed partly depend on player's reflexes and eye-hand coordination (hence, action), but also on how you develop your character and in which ways (hence, roleplaying game).

To be fair, most classic RPGs should actually be called tactical RPGs or such because during combat you can quite often use your own tactical skills to overcome more powerful and advanced enemies. Like the way I killed my first dragon in Baldur's Gate 2, I somehow managed to make it teleport into a spot where it got stuck, and then I could simply kill it bit by bit with ranged weapons (bows and crossbows) and ranged spells. If I had had to fight it on open at that point, I would have surely lost.

Fallout 1-2 had a "branching story" mostly in a way that at the end of the game, you are presented with certain summaries of what happened to different towns and persons, based on what you did during the game (e.g. did you complete certain quests etc.). Yeah it was a nice touch for those game, certainly. E.g. if you did this and this and this, then you get the good/best ending for the Necropolis at the end where the peaceful ghouls run the city and learn to trade with other towns, and live happily ever after in their ghoulish ways.
Post edited December 04, 2016 by timppu
Posted December 04, 2016
I guess Inquisitor and Lionheart are the ones that fit the "ARPG with story" requirements the most. And supposedly Divine divinity too, but I have yet to play that properly because first of all the whole diablo-clone thing is kinda not appealing to me and also it had weird performance issues the last time I tried it. I mean severe stuttering and freezing for some reason (I suspect resolution but I'm really not sure)
Posted December 05, 2016
I think the whole topic title is misleading. The "story-driven" game doesn't neccesserily mean that game has branching story. Final Fantasy games don't have branching story, but they are exactly what people call "story-driven games". Or do you really can say that these games don't have story?!

As for RPG definition - its all about character development. No matter if it's about branching choices that shape character's personality or just some skill point system. Yes, that may be inaccurate, but that's how most people used to percieve the genre.

BTW, Final Fantasy 15 is going to be ARPG. And it (supposedly) will have good story. The only component missing is isometric view.
Posted December 05, 2016
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LootHunter: BTW, Final Fantasy 15 is going to be ARPG. And it (supposedly) will have good story. The only component missing is isometric view.
Judging by the commercials I've seen, is it really an "action" RPG?

I'm not sure if a 75 hour long quick time event counts as action ;) *ba dum cha*
Posted December 05, 2016
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Ixamyakxim: Judging by the commercials I've seen, is it really an "action" RPG?

I'm not sure if a 75 hour long quick time event counts as action ;) *ba dum cha*
Judjing by the demo I've played there are other things than QTE in the game.
Posted December 05, 2016
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Ixamyakxim: I'm not sure if a 75 hour long quick time event counts as action ;) *ba dum cha*
Order 1886 was heavy on quicktime events as I recall. But it was like 4-6 hours long.


Hmmm... I can't say I have much interest for FF15, we'll have to see how it looks 2 years after it's out, after the price drops from $60 to something more reasonable. Then again I'm unlikely to get it since I don't have the newer hardware consoles...
Posted December 05, 2016
BTW, the "choose your own adventure" type games most people are familiar with (like Hatoful Boyfriend, and I hate you GoG for making me use that game as an example) are called Visual Novels, itself a subgenre of a larger category known as Interactive Fiction, which also includes text-based adventure games (think Zork, or Dunnet) and various other subgenres. They're not RPGs any more than Mount & Blade is a TPS.

As for the OP's question, dunno if it counts as it also incorporates various elements from action/adventure games a la Legend of Zelda, but I just finished playing through Xanadu Next, it is isometric, and it does feel a bit like a story-driven Diablo-like game.
Posted December 05, 2016
Al Qadim : The Genie's Curse is pretty story-driven.
Posted December 05, 2016
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dtgreene: There are a few points that i consider crucial for a game to be considered an RPG. In particular:

1. The player is only giving orders to the PCs, not directly controlling them. For instance, to attack, the player tells the character to attack, and chooses the target of the attack. The player does not actually directly control the attack.
2. The success of such an action is determined by the character's skills, not the player's. Therefore, the player's aim with a ranged attack is irrelevant; it is up to the attacker's and defender's stats, along with the RNG (or, for table top games, a dice roll), to determine whether the attack is a hit or a miss.
3. Some form of PC persistence. Once all the opponents in a combat are eliminated, or an encounter is survived another way, the PCs continue to exist. (This criterion is intended to eliminate pure strategy games such as chess, in which, once you defeat your opponent, your surviving pieces don't really exist any more; your next match of chess is with a new board with a new set of pieces, unlike in an RPG.)
But according to your description RPGs like The Elder Scrolls games Oblivion and Skyrim don't count, despite being one of the finest examples of RPGs.
Posted December 05, 2016
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dtgreene: There are a few points that i consider crucial for a game to be considered an RPG. In particular:

1. The player is only giving orders to the PCs, not directly controlling them. For instance, to attack, the player tells the character to attack, and chooses the target of the attack. The player does not actually directly control the attack.
2. The success of such an action is determined by the character's skills, not the player's. Therefore, the player's aim with a ranged attack is irrelevant; it is up to the attacker's and defender's stats, along with the RNG (or, for table top games, a dice roll), to determine whether the attack is a hit or a miss.
3. Some form of PC persistence. Once all the opponents in a combat are eliminated, or an encounter is survived another way, the PCs continue to exist. (This criterion is intended to eliminate pure strategy games such as chess, in which, once you defeat your opponent, your surviving pieces don't really exist any more; your next match of chess is with a new board with a new set of pieces, unlike in an RPG.)
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Green_Hilltop: But according to your description RPGs like The Elder Scrolls games Oblivion and Skyrim don't count, despite being one of the finest examples of RPGs.
I understand they don't count with this definition. I wouldn't consider them to be among the finest examples of RPGs because I wouldn't consider them RPGs in the first place.
Posted December 05, 2016
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Green_Hilltop: But according to your description RPGs like The Elder Scrolls games Oblivion and Skyrim don't count, despite being one of the finest examples of RPGs.
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dtgreene: I understand they don't count with this definition. I wouldn't consider them to be among the finest examples of RPGs because I wouldn't consider them RPGs in the first place.
Haha, that's a bit of a circular logic there.

Personally I think you have a very narrow definition of RPGs that ignores a large number of great and/or classic RPGs just because you don't think a specific type of action RPGs are RPGs, despite various action RPGs like these being more of an RPG in terms of character progression and choice than some games that do fit your criteria.

Which does make your definition obsolete because if it ignores games like TES, then it doesn't really encompass what a RPG truly is or can be.
Post edited December 05, 2016 by Green_Hilltop
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General discussionWhy are there no story-driven isometric ARPGs?(34 posts)(34 posts)
(34 posts)