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General discussionWhere to purchase Unreal Tournament games?(69 posts)(69 posts)
(69 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 04, 2024
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Reznov64: Clearly there was another motive for the delisting, i.e. politics, not the music.
What is unclear is how that motive made you lost all hope with GOG rather than the publisher?
Posted October 04, 2024
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Reznov64: I lost hope in GOG when they kowtowed to political pressure groups and delisted Spec Ops: The Line.
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Delisted due to the war in the Middle East. 2K/Yaeger didn't want to catch flak about having a game where you can kill civilians in the Middle East so they forced digital retailers to delist the game to help keep it under the radar that such levels existed. Just like how Infinity Ward/Activision caught flak for the "No Russian" level in COD MW2.
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They could have just patched it out and kept it up for sale.
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If the expiring license lie was true, they could have just patched it out and kept the game up for sale.
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When GTA IV had music licenses expired, they removed the songs through a patch and kept the game up for sale. If the music licenses is the only problem for Spec Ops: The Line, Yaeger/2K needs only to remove the music through a patch and can keep the game up for sale. Clearly there was another motive for the delisting, i.e. politics, not the music.
I can't help but smell an agenda on your part...
Posted October 05, 2024
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Reznov64: I lost hope in GOG when they kowtowed to political pressure groups and delisted Spec Ops: The Line.
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Delisted due to the war in the Middle East. 2K/Yaeger didn't want to catch flak about having a game where you can kill civilians in the Middle East so they forced digital retailers to delist the game to help keep it under the radar that such levels existed. Just like how Infinity Ward/Activision caught flak for the "No Russian" level in COD MW2.
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They could have just patched it out and kept it up for sale.
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If the expiring license lie was true, they could have just patched it out and kept the game up for sale.
-----
When GTA IV had music licenses expired, they removed the songs through a patch and kept the game up for sale. If the music licenses is the only problem for Spec Ops: The Line, Yaeger/2K needs only to remove the music through a patch and can keep the game up for sale. Clearly there was another motive for the delisting, i.e. politics, not the music.
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BreOl72: I can't help but smell an agenda on your part...
No agenda, I just don't like this modern era where we have created a massive digital library filled with books, music, art, movies and other forms of entertainment that we can lose access to any of those works just because a piece of paper with a contract or license on it expires.
Posted October 05, 2024
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Reznov64: Clearly there was another motive for the delisting, i.e. politics, not the music.
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JAAHAS: What is unclear is how that motive made you lost all hope with GOG rather than the publisher?
Because they claim to work on preserving games. Where is Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason? Where is You Are Empty? Gone, not preserved at all, removed from sale.
Posted October 05, 2024
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JAAHAS: What is unclear is how that motive made you lost all hope with GOG rather than the publisher?
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Reznov64: Because they claim to work on preserving games. Where is Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason? Where is You Are Empty? Gone, not preserved at all, removed from sale.
In the end it's the owner of the IP that has final say, GOG can't go against a publishers request to remove a game else they would be in breach of contract and could face penalties, fines, or even a lawsuit.

Same with adding games to the store as they would be wide open to legal issues for hosting a game without approval of the IP owners.
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: I can't help but smell an agenda on your part...
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Reznov64: No agenda...
...we have created a massive digital library filled with books, music, art, movies and other forms of entertainment that we can lose access to any of those works just because a piece of paper with a contract or license on it expires.
Only - "in general", you don't lose access, if you purchase it in time.

People who bought "Spec Ops: The Line" here on GOG (or on any other store) before it got delisted, still have access to the unaltered game.

I write "in general", because there have been cases, where music was removed from game(s) ("GTA" series).

That's "removed" as in "removed from the games, sitting in the accounts of owners who had purchased the game(s) prior to the expiring licenses".

Mind you: the access to that/these game(s) is still granted - it's just not exactly the game(s) anymore, one initially bought.

Btw: that step (retroactively removing music) was not well received by the "community".
And yet, you are here, asking for the same to happen to other games...
Attachments:
sure_no_agenda.jpg (86 Kb)
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: I write "in general", because there have been cases, where music was removed from game(s) ("GTA" series).
Also the first two games of the Quake series at one point.

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BreOl72: Btw: that step (retroactively removing music) was not well received by the "community".
And yet, you are here, asking for the same to happen to other games...
Tbh i'd rather at least have the games for sale DRM-free. Then people could buy them and put the music back in, like with the aforementioned quake games.
Post edited October 05, 2024 by GamezRanker
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: Btw: that step (retroactively removing music) was not well received by the "community".
And yet, you are here, asking for the same to happen to other games...
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GamezRanker: Tbh i'd rather at least have the games for sale DRM-free. Then people could buy them and put the music back in, like with the aforementioned quake games.
I agree. In general, I usually see it as preferable for a modified version of a game to be made available DRM-free, than to not be available at all. Then, at least people have the option to buy it or not. Although, it does complicate things, as it means we have to do some 'due diligence' before we buy. There should absolutely be a big flashing banner on the store page, that makes it very clear what is different from the original.

I wouldn't personally buy Dawn of War here, due to the DRMed multiplayer. But, it's still good to see it available DRM-free, for those that do want it.
Posted October 05, 2024
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Time4Tea: In general, I usually see it as preferable for a modified version of a game to be made available DRM-free, than to not be available at all. Then, at least people have the option to buy it or not. Although, it does complicate things, as it means we have to do some 'due diligence' before we buy. There should absolutely be a big flashing banner on the store page, that makes it very clear what is different from the original.
Yes, a big notice and perhaps a slight yet permanent discount for the lack of some original content as well.
Posted October 05, 2024
So, you're expecting buyers to restore a game to its original state themselves?

That's the equivalent of Toyota sending a representative to my home, to remove the wing mirrors from my purchased car.

And then, when I complain about it, people are telling me to shut up, simply go to the local scrapyard, find fitting wing mirrors and attach them to my car myself.

Edit: typo
Post edited October 05, 2024 by BreOl72
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: So, you're expecting buyers to restore a game to its original state themselves?

That's the equivalent of Toyota sending a representative to my home, to remove the wing mirrors from my purchased car.
I'm not saying it's the ideal situation. The best case is obviously for the original game to be available, with all original content intact. But it's not a perfect world, and to use your analogy: surely a half-finished fixer-upper car is better than not having a car at all, if that is the only alternative?

With a clear, appropriate sign on the store page, at least the buyer has the choice. You don't have to buy it, but someone else might be ok with it.
Post edited October 05, 2024 by Time4Tea
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: So, you're expecting buyers to restore a game to its original state themselves?
That's a piss poor comparison, as it takes very little time and effort to put something like music back into a game.
(achievement unlocked - 10G - forum users whine about first world problems for the 100th time)
Post edited October 05, 2024 by GamezRanker
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: So, you're expecting buyers to restore a game to its original state themselves?

That's the equivalent of Toyota sending a representative to my home, to remove the wing mirrors from my purchased car.
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Time4Tea: ...to use your analogy: surely a half-finished fixer-upper car is better than not having a car at all, if that is the only alternative?

With a clear, appropriate sign on the store page, at least the buyer has the choice.
You don't have to buy it, but someone else might be ok with it.
But you are not using my exact analogy.

See: the situation from which you start is as follows:
- There's a person without a car.
- That person goes and buys a "fixer upper" car, well knowing, that the wing mirrors are missing.
Nothing wrong with that.

Whereas the situation from which I started, is as follows:
- I have a car.
- I bought it last year already.
- One morning I leave the house, to find my wing mirrors are missing and there's a message from my Toyota dealer sticking under my wipers.
- In that message, they're telling me, that Toyota licensed the wing mirror design 10 years ago from Honda and that that license has now expired, and therefore they had to remove the wing mirrors from my car.

You know: the car which I purchased last year, including these wing mirrors.

Surely you can see the difference?
Posted October 05, 2024
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BreOl72: Whereas the situation from which I started, is as follows:
- I have a car.
- I bought it last year already.
- One morning I leave the house, to find my wing mirrors are missing and there's a message from my Toyota dealer sticking under my wipers.
- In that message, they're telling me, that Toyota licensed the wing mirror design 10 years ago from Honda and that that license has now expired, and therefore they had to remove the wing mirrors from my car.

You know: the car which I purchased last year, including these wing mirrors.

Surely you can see the difference?
1) if you downloaded your offline installers (as you always should with a DRM-free game), then you wouldn't be in that situation. Therefore, your analogy is poor. If you didn't download it, then a closer analogy would be if you bought a car 5 years ago and never took it home, just left it sitting in the dealer's lot and during that time they updated the model to something you don't like.

Yes, in that situation, there would be some fault on the dealer, but there would also be some on you.

2) again, we're talking about a situation where the only alternative is that the game be de-listed from the store. I.e. the perfect option that you want isn't available. In fact, we're talking about games (Spec Ops) that have already been de-listed.
Posted October 06, 2024
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idbeholdME: They left up the page, but it's completely abandoned, devoid of any further development.
https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/en-US/#intro
When it was still somewhat in development, everybody could just grab it for free, straight from the launcher. Used to even have a separate tab for it in the launcher.
Very weird what happened then.

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idbeholdME: The official servers have also been turned off. There is community thing running for it, but haven't been following that at all:
https://www.ut4ever.org/index
Yep, that's where I got my file sizes from.
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Reznov64: Because they claim to work on preserving games.
This is where many folk just get the wrong idea, and GOG doesn't enlighten them.

You can't possibly have GOG, a store that could close any time, be a preservation source.

What GOG are, are a means to preservation via their customers. But only if their customers download and backup.

It is us the customers that are doing the preserving.

True preservation requires DRM-Free, and storage at many independent locations around the world. Only us customers can be relied upon to do that.
Post edited October 06, 2024 by Timboli
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhere to purchase Unreal Tournament games?(69 posts)(69 posts)
(69 posts)