Posted November 28, 2015
Crassmaster
Right bastard
Crassmaster Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Canada
TRUMP MUST F U C K I N G HANG
Find me in STEAM OT
TRUMP MUST F U C K I N G HANG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
johnnygoging
I was told there would always be a bigger fish
johnnygoging Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2013
From Canada
TRUMP MUST F U C K I N G HANG
Find me in STEAM OT
TRUMP MUST F U C K I N G HANG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted November 28, 2015
johnnygoging: your repootay. your little number, your gog thermometer, your forum snake, your repootay, man!
johnnygoging: nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.
It was 1190 something yeah.johnnygoging: nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.
Post edited November 29, 2015 by tinyE
Crassmaster
Right bastard
Crassmaster Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Canada
Posted November 29, 2015
johnnygoging: your repootay. your little number, your gog thermometer, your forum snake, your repootay, man!
johnnygoging: nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.
Good point. It's part of the 'playful romantic overtures' clause of subsection B of the Rules of Internetting.johnnygoging: nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.
skeletonbow
Galaxy 3 when?
skeletonbow Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Canada
Posted November 29, 2015
skeletonbow: Freedom of speech grants people the right to for example set up their own website in their country and say whatever they want within what is protected as free speech.
Starmaker: A rather notable nope there. (1) Not every country is legally obliged to grant freedom of speech.
(2) Among countries who are legally obliged to do so, most don't actually follow through (e.g. Best Korea).
(3) There's no such thing as "your own website" that no one can interfere with, as a positive right. More generally, there's no positive execution of the right to free speech which can't be judged to infringe on other rights and therefore be illegal.
What I am stating, and this is in the context of how freedom of speech applies to the laws of Canada and the US at least as a legally granted right. By law we are free to speak freely with the exception of hate speech which is well defined and against the law. This means that we can open our mouths and let words come out, whether those words are to an audience, or falling upon deaf ears. We can write those words down freely also and share them with other people through various means. If we own a website or blog or other forum with which to speak (whether we own it or otherwise), we're free to speak there too. But if we do not own the forum in which we are speaking, nobody else is obligated to listen to us. We're free to say our words but the law does not extend that freedom to the point where it prevents a website owner such as say... Facebook from removing the words based on their own criterion.
Freedom of speech allows us to speak, but nobody has to listen to us nor give us a forum with which to be heard. That does not stop us from having freedom of speech however, we can speak all we want wherever we can actually be heard, and the best way to do that is to create your own forum which you're in total control of, such as your own personal website.
Some people think that being censored on a website or forum or whatever violates their freedom of speech. That is nonsense however because no law protects their words in this manner. I'd challenge someone to sue Facebook, Google, CDPR or some other company for censoring something they've said on the basis that their freedom of speech is being violated. I can't say how the laws work in other countries around the world, but such a lawsuit in Canada or the US would be preposterous because the law governing freedom of speech do not protect people in this manner so it would be a frivolous lawsuit.
Having said that, if the freedom of speech laws in your country grant you the right to say whatever you want wherever you like online on website properties owned by other countries and it protects your words on those websites and strips the owners of those sites from having any legal right to delete your words, then my statements do not apply to you and therefore feel free to sue those companies for violation of your country's freedom of speech laws.
Aside from what I've said above, one should note that simply having freedom of speech laws does not mean that these rights never get repressed or abused. There are corrupt government officials, corrupt police, or other situations that may interfere with someone's legally protected rights however that does not mean those rights do not exist, just that they are being abused. But being censored on some company owned web forum (in another country for that matter) does not constitute a violation of freedom of speech, at least not how it is defined by law in North America.
If someone feels otherwise, feel free to sue CDPR (or whatever company or person who has moderated or censored you online) to prove your point and see how far you get in court with claiming your right to freedom of speech was violated. I'll bet money that nobody will get far doing so because no such rights like that exist (whether one chooses to call it freedom of speech or something else).
Update: I'd like to point out that I agree with your point #1, and that nothing I stated previously contradicts that either. There are few places in the world that have legally granted freedom of speech, and many countries that people traditionally think have that protection do not actually. I do not debate this at all. My words only apply where that right does exist in the form to which I consider actual free speech. That means Canada and the US insofar as my words are meant. Other countries may or may not have similar laws but I leave that up as an exercise to the reader to do their own research as to whether a given country has freedom of speech as a legally granted right and what that actually means for them. Again, it is unlikely to protect them from censorship or moderation on privately owned websites.
Post edited November 29, 2015 by skeletonbow
trynoval
FCKDRM
trynoval Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2011
From Russian Federation
Posted November 29, 2015
Starmaker: A rather notable nope there.
(1) Not every country is legally obliged to grant freedom of speech.
(2) Among countries who are legally obliged to do so, most don't actually follow through (e.g. Best Korea).
(3) There's no such thing as "your own website" that no one can interfere with, as a positive right. More generally, there's no positive execution of the right to free speech which can't be judged to infringe on other rights and therefore be illegal.
skeletonbow: Perhaps my words were not well formulated towards a global audience. Let me clarify. (1) Not every country is legally obliged to grant freedom of speech.
(2) Among countries who are legally obliged to do so, most don't actually follow through (e.g. Best Korea).
(3) There's no such thing as "your own website" that no one can interfere with, as a positive right. More generally, there's no positive execution of the right to free speech which can't be judged to infringe on other rights and therefore be illegal.
What I am stating, and this is in the context of how freedom of speech applies to the laws of Canada and the US at least as a legally granted right. By law we are free to speak freely with the exception of hate speech which is well defined and against the law. This means that we can open our mouths and let words come out, whether those words are to an audience, or falling upon deaf ears. We can write those words down freely also and share them with other people through various means. If we own a website or blog or other forum with which to speak (whether we own it or otherwise), we're free to speak there too. But if we do not own the forum in which we are speaking, nobody else is obligated to listen to us. We're free to say our words but the law does not extend that freedom to the point where it prevents a website owner such as say... Facebook from removing the words based on their own criterion.
Freedom of speech allows us to speak, but nobody has to listen to us nor give us a forum with which to be heard. That does not stop us from having freedom of speech however, we can speak all we want wherever we can actually be heard, and the best way to do that is to create your own forum which you're in total control of, such as your own personal website.
Some people think that being censored on a website or forum or whatever violates their freedom of speech. That is nonsense however because no law protects their words in this manner. I'd challenge someone to sue Facebook, Google, CDPR or some other company for censoring something they've said on the basis that their freedom of speech is being violated. I can't say how the laws work in other countries around the world, but such a lawsuit in Canada or the US would be preposterous because the law governing freedom of speech do not protect people in this manner so it would be a frivolous lawsuit.
Having said that, if the freedom of speech laws in your country grant you the right to say whatever you want wherever you like online on website properties owned by other countries and it protects your words on those websites and strips the owners of those sites from having any legal right to delete your words, then my statements do not apply to you and therefore feel free to sue those companies for violation of your country's freedom of speech laws.
Aside from what I've said above, one should note that simply having freedom of speech laws does not mean that these rights never get repressed or abused. There are corrupt government officials, corrupt police, or other situations that may interfere with someone's legally protected rights however that does not mean those rights do not exist, just that they are being abused. But being censored on some company owned web forum (in another country for that matter) does not constitute a violation of freedom of speech, at least not how it is defined by law in North America.
If someone feels otherwise, feel free to sue CDPR (or whatever company or person who has moderated or censored you online) to prove your point and see how far you get in court with claiming your right to freedom of speech was violated. I'll bet money that nobody will get far doing so because no such rights like that exist (whether one chooses to call it freedom of speech or something else).
Update: I'd like to point out that I agree with your point #1, and that nothing I stated previously contradicts that either. There are few places in the world that have legally granted freedom of speech, and many countries that people traditionally think have that protection do not actually. I do not debate this at all. My words only apply where that right does exist in the form to which I consider actual free speech. That means Canada and the US insofar as my words are meant. Other countries may or may not have similar laws but I leave that up as an exercise to the reader to do their own research as to whether a given country has freedom of speech as a legally granted right and what that actually means for them. Again, it is unlikely to protect them from censorship or moderation on privately owned websites.
That's just not healthy and good for peoples and company itself in long run.
I was complaining about some bad signs of how CDPR/GOG owners doing things.
Now with witcher 3 downgrade, aggressive damage protection and overmoderated forums I'm complaining a lot more.
I like and believe in DRM-Free idea, game support service is still good. But with darkening clouds I'm not a happy buyer.
And I don't wait for new RPG from CDPR, because of story political adoptation in W3, that ruined core meaning of Sapkowski books.
gamesfreak64
Service with a smile :D
gamesfreak64 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2014
From Netherlands
Posted November 30, 2015
As for the ability to edit a post anytime at will:
most forums for games and/or onlinegames like browsergames use a 12 or 24 hour period in which a user can edit his/her post, after that its locked and cant be edited any longer.
I played like 15 differnt online browsergames so that made 15 forum accounts (thats 8 years ago, now i have only a few games left cause it took too much time playing all these games)
Most of the time you cant edit the post after 12 or 24 hours have past, basically its 12 hours unless you dont sleep and are awake 24/7.
So i dont get the excitement about not beiing able to edit a post once its made.
Also, reviews , once a user made a review, and pressed okay/done/ send or whatevr text is on the ok button,
these are also not able to be edited lateron, so if its loaded with typoos , thats badluck.
As for limiting speech and replies in fora,, and the freedom of speech, this is also happening a lot in the democratic countries which do have freedom of speech, things are changing rapidly,
So all we can do is : let it come and keep our lips sealed.
most forums for games and/or onlinegames like browsergames use a 12 or 24 hour period in which a user can edit his/her post, after that its locked and cant be edited any longer.
I played like 15 differnt online browsergames so that made 15 forum accounts (thats 8 years ago, now i have only a few games left cause it took too much time playing all these games)
Most of the time you cant edit the post after 12 or 24 hours have past, basically its 12 hours unless you dont sleep and are awake 24/7.
So i dont get the excitement about not beiing able to edit a post once its made.
Also, reviews , once a user made a review, and pressed okay/done/ send or whatevr text is on the ok button,
these are also not able to be edited lateron, so if its loaded with typoos , thats badluck.
As for limiting speech and replies in fora,, and the freedom of speech, this is also happening a lot in the democratic countries which do have freedom of speech, things are changing rapidly,
So all we can do is : let it come and keep our lips sealed.
skeletonbow
Galaxy 3 when?
skeletonbow Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Canada
Posted November 30, 2015
The entire Internet is largely too unmoderated IMHO. Just look at the hateful angry comments section below every video ever uploaded to Youtube or comments on just about any other website online that ever existed and had a comments section. People can't control their emotions in public forums, especially when they have complete impunity behind varying shades of anonymity and/or distance, etc. It is because of a general overall lack of civility that various websites/forums and other forms of communication feel the need to have moderation to begin with. Some such as GOG.com have taken a very light handed approach and err on not removing things unless something gets very out of hand, and there are people who appreciate that. There are many who think GOG does not do enough to remove hate, rage, bullying and other negatives from the forums too. Both sides have some strong points to their opinions on this and there really isn't an undebatable right or wrong solution. Other websites/forums choose to empower 3rd party moderators whom often are simply frequent members of the communities themselves who are later imbued with administrative rights to moderate individual forums etc. on their own, either within a set of guidelines, or entirely up to the person themselves. That's largely how IRC networks are ran in a way, each channel makes its own rules as good or bad as they may be, and as good or bad the admins might be.
I got the impression that CDPR imbued certain regular forum users with administrative moderation powers although I'm not certain of that as I don't use their forums too often. I certainly don't expect a company to pay one or more full time employees to go and police hoards of hateful angry Internet bullies day in and day out though, that's just not economical IMHO. So any system is going to have it's flaws in the end. A place where anyone and everyone can angry-shout at everyone else endlessly without consequence is a place that simply draws people who want to do just that, and all the peaceful civil people eventually just leave as they don't want to be involved in that, or else they're just intimidated and perhaps even bullied themselves. That isn't a good experience for anyone. I'd rather have forums online where a company or organization has the balls to either say "enough is enough" and moderate away the noisemakers to some degree or to delegate that chore to the people themselves to do it.
Will everyone like it? No, probably not, especially if they think they have been wronged by it or treated unfairly by someone. That's just part of life on and off the Internet really. The best thing to do in any communication forum is to always try to be as civil and respectful to everyone as one possibly can, and to avoid emotional situations. Not everyone can do that 100% of the time, myself included but we have to all try to do so as best we can in order to have decent communication forums to use, otherwise it's just an ongoing verbal violence war between hot heads 24/7. The verbal Internet version of the middle east so to speak.
So I'm a fan of moderation personally even if sometimes a few eggs get broken, even if sometimes I end up being one of the broken eggs. At the end of the day, there are more important matters in life to be concerned about than to let minor things like this get in the way of personal enjoyment of things.
I respect your opinons about what you said above, even though I feel differently about CDPR and The Witcher 3 personally. The game was way more amazing to me than even my highest expectations and I'm quite happy about that, but everyone has different expectations so I wouldn't expect for everyone to feel the same really. I'm looking forward to any games they do in the future and will break my general rule protocol and likely buy their prereleases in the days/weeks leading up to new game releases as I've had great experiences so far. If one has had a bad experience though then perhaps they'll do the opposite and that is fine too. If anything it's a sign of success really. There is a saying that if everyone loves you that you must be doing something wrong as the more popular something is the more likely it is to draw a wider variety of opinions that contradict.
The great thing is that we have so many options out there, whether it is the sheer number of games, the number of game sites, you name it. Infinite stuff to occupy our attention, but best to find things that are the most enjoyable experiences for ourselves in the end. :)
Peace.
I got the impression that CDPR imbued certain regular forum users with administrative moderation powers although I'm not certain of that as I don't use their forums too often. I certainly don't expect a company to pay one or more full time employees to go and police hoards of hateful angry Internet bullies day in and day out though, that's just not economical IMHO. So any system is going to have it's flaws in the end. A place where anyone and everyone can angry-shout at everyone else endlessly without consequence is a place that simply draws people who want to do just that, and all the peaceful civil people eventually just leave as they don't want to be involved in that, or else they're just intimidated and perhaps even bullied themselves. That isn't a good experience for anyone. I'd rather have forums online where a company or organization has the balls to either say "enough is enough" and moderate away the noisemakers to some degree or to delegate that chore to the people themselves to do it.
Will everyone like it? No, probably not, especially if they think they have been wronged by it or treated unfairly by someone. That's just part of life on and off the Internet really. The best thing to do in any communication forum is to always try to be as civil and respectful to everyone as one possibly can, and to avoid emotional situations. Not everyone can do that 100% of the time, myself included but we have to all try to do so as best we can in order to have decent communication forums to use, otherwise it's just an ongoing verbal violence war between hot heads 24/7. The verbal Internet version of the middle east so to speak.
So I'm a fan of moderation personally even if sometimes a few eggs get broken, even if sometimes I end up being one of the broken eggs. At the end of the day, there are more important matters in life to be concerned about than to let minor things like this get in the way of personal enjoyment of things.
I respect your opinons about what you said above, even though I feel differently about CDPR and The Witcher 3 personally. The game was way more amazing to me than even my highest expectations and I'm quite happy about that, but everyone has different expectations so I wouldn't expect for everyone to feel the same really. I'm looking forward to any games they do in the future and will break my general rule protocol and likely buy their prereleases in the days/weeks leading up to new game releases as I've had great experiences so far. If one has had a bad experience though then perhaps they'll do the opposite and that is fine too. If anything it's a sign of success really. There is a saying that if everyone loves you that you must be doing something wrong as the more popular something is the more likely it is to draw a wider variety of opinions that contradict.
The great thing is that we have so many options out there, whether it is the sheer number of games, the number of game sites, you name it. Infinite stuff to occupy our attention, but best to find things that are the most enjoyable experiences for ourselves in the end. :)
Peace.