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General discussionWhat is the issue with Denuvo really?(60 posts)(60 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 11, 2018
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"Who is Naven Johnson?
Posted July 11, 2018
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tinyE: "Who is Naven Johnson?
Your reference went right over my head TinyE because who the fuck indeed is Naven Johnson and where did that quote came from?
Posted July 11, 2018
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tinyE: "Who is Naven Johnson?
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Elmofongo: Your reference went right over my head TinyE because who the fuck indeed is Naven Johnson and where did that quote came from?
The Jerk

The thread title reminded me of this clip:
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c77a3a0e-5171-407d-ae01-9cbbcc48809b
Posted July 11, 2018
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Elmofongo: So please answer to me with absolute clarity as a laymen, why is Denuvo bad?
- It's an extra layer of DRM on top of the already existing DRM. (And yes I know the difference between DRM and Anti-tamper but Denuvo definitely qualify as DRM)

- It's an extra layer of DRM requiring specific activation server on top of the other DRM activation server.

- Depending on how it's implemented (i.e. how paranoiac the devs are it can have a significant impact on performance)

- It's a pain to crack. A tolerable DRM, is a DRM that everybody and their dog can crack in their sleep.

- A lot of the crack for it are not "future proof", as in they basically simulate the Denuvo activation process for a finite number of known CPUs, it's not an issue currently but in a couple of years those crack will most likely no longer work with newer CPUs. (so not that good for game preservation if the devs never release a Denuvo-free version)
Post edited July 11, 2018 by Gersen
Posted July 11, 2018
Denuvo, we hatess it. We hatess it! FOREVER!
Posted July 11, 2018
It's a bit like a clogged drain in a shower. Bad enough that it only sprays cold water now, but now it all goes slowly.
Posted July 11, 2018
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tremere110: The big one for me is that it requires the verification servers to be running in order to activate your install. If you install a game 10 years from now and those servers are down - you're going to have to find a crack and all the risks associated with that (malware, viruses, etc).

There is also a well documented marked difference in performance between Denovu RiME and without Denovo RiME. It's hard to tell if Denuvo if affecting performance in most cases because most cracks simply bypass Denovo rather than remove it - there's no baseline for comparison until Denuvo strips the DRM themselves (and it seems they prefer to bypass it instead of remove it too).
There was also a minor difference in DOOM between with Denuvo and without.
Posted July 11, 2018
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Strijkbout: DRM-free on the other hand will grow hair on your chest.
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park_84: That could explain why there aren't many women around here.
Do you know why only a rare few humans can tell a female dwarf from a male one? Females with beards aren't very common among humans. DRM-free people are similar to dwarves in that respect, everyone grows chest hair.

Denuvo, however, changes you into Gollum.
Post edited July 11, 2018 by Maighstir
Posted July 11, 2018
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paladin181: There was also a minor difference in DOOM between with Denuvo and without.
Somebody also told me adding quarter teaspoon of guano improves the taste of coffee.

I still refuse.
Posted July 12, 2018
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Darvond: It's a bit like a clogged drain in a shower. Bad enough that it only sprays cold water now, but now it all goes slowly.
actually, I would probably equate it to a struggling business. Right now there's money coming in to keep the business alive, meet payroll, etc (aka servers are up for all games). However, there will come a point where they company can no longer pay payroll out of pocket and have to go into debt (some games servers are shutting down) before down the road declaring bankrupcty (disconue the service for games due to low demand), causing the workers (gamers) to have less take home pay (the games they bought can be played no more unless it's cracked) which leads to liquidation (total discotinuation of service for all games/all game servers shut down) of the company.
Posted July 12, 2018
I tried to explain many times why denuvo is bad.... not this time.
I will just say: "Because I buy the game and I want to own it" (of course limited to the fact that you never really own a copyright protected material, just a license to use it. I don't want to rent that license, I want to buy it) and I don't want crap (virus, rootkit etc...) on my PC.
Post edited July 12, 2018 by LiefLayer
Posted July 12, 2018
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Strijkbout: Okay, once more I will repeat it for you.

It has been scientifically proven that Dunovo heightens estrogenlevels by males, which makes brests to form.

DRM-free on the other hand will grow hair on your chest.
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PoppyAppletree: Yikes, better start buying Steam games again then. D:
Bearded ladies are sexy. ;)
Posted July 12, 2018
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LiefLayer: I tried to explain many times why denuvo is bad.... not this time.
I will just say: "Because I buy the game and I want to own it" (of course limited to the fact that you never really own a copyright protected material, just a license to use it. I don't want to rent that license, I want to buy it) and I don't want crap (virus, rootkit etc...) on my PC.
Already had my clear explination.

Also, question about you, did you go by the name of Big_Boss here?

I am only basing the fact that you are from Italy and Big_Boss was from Italy.
Posted July 12, 2018
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Elmofongo: Because honestly I feel I never get a straight answer with the negative reprecussions with Denuvo.

I mean the other worse forms of DRM are easy to understand why they are bad:

In the days of DOS gaming, they use a Copy Protection system by purposely making a game unbeatable or unplayable unless you have the codes or methods that is given to you with a purchased copy of hte game, in the case with Ultima 6 and 7, you had to answer a series of questions from characters, to answer those questions, you had to either have the list of answers given to you in the purchased game box, or you are lore savvy with the game's universe. The Copy Protection also varies depending on the game so not all of it was merely questions and answers.

Another bad one is SecuROM, where you had a set amount of limits to how many times can you uninstall and re-install a game, and when you run them out you had to check with SecuROM's website for them to give you more chances to install your games.

And of course there is worse one, Always Online DRM, no connection, no game, made clearly to how horrible it was with Assassin's Creed 2.

But I see nothing with Denuvo and why its bad, the only thing I got out of it was they say that it causes performance issues with your games? But I find that debateable because i played games with Denuvo, most notably Resident Evil 7 on Steam and in my experiance that game performance wise was flawless. 60+ FPS constantly, not lags or jittering, etc. Which makes me think its not Denuvo but playing these kinds of games with potatoe powered PCs for all I know.

So please answer to me with absolute clarity as a laymen, why is Denuvo bad?
Denuvo's performance problems vary depending on how it has been integrated. Arkham Knight was a fucking shitfest on launch and Denuvo certainly wasn't helping. It's been shown to cause about a 5-8% drop in FPS on average, and there are various reports of massive intermittent stutters dropping FPS by half or more.

Denuvo costs money and publishers don't want to pay that shit themselves if they can do anything about it. That means more fucking launch tiering, more micro, higher pricetags.

What happens if Denuvo's backend has a problem one day? Or something else comes along and the company gets sold and the new company doesn't keep the shit running? It's GFWL again. Denuvo needs to phone home periodically. What happens when it can't?
Posted July 12, 2018
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johnnygoging: Denuvo's performance problems vary depending on how it has been integrated. Arkham Knight was a fucking shitfest on launch and Denuvo certainly wasn't helping. It's been shown to cause about a 5-8% drop in FPS on average, and there are various reports of massive intermittent stutters dropping FPS by half or more.
Where has this been shown? Because every reputable site I read says Denuvo tests show no performance impact outside of possible load time increases of 5% or less. In other words nothing really.

The real reason to dislike it, and all DRM really, is in your last paragraph. What happens when it can't call home? We all want to preserve our games, and we've seen online games go away forever. We don't want to see that happen to our singleplayer games. That's the reason to dislike Denuvo and the forced checks of Steam, Uplay, Origin, etc.

However I will say the PC gaming community will take care of the big games. If in 20 years DRM makes Dishonored 2 impossible to load to Windows 17 then some fine young man will write a new installer and .exe so that it does launch, and anyone who bought it today will feel completely justified in using it. I do that now with games like Splinter Cell 2, Blade Runner, No One Lives Forever and others. Games no one is selling because they can't or won't, so the community takes care of it (with a dedicated .com webpage even for NOLF!). This is why I tell people not to worry about DRM too much (on PC... on console it'll be a nightmare).

I get the principle of hating it though.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhat is the issue with Denuvo really?(60 posts)(60 posts)
(60 posts)