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General discussionWhat Have You Done Now Microsoft?(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 01, 2018
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WinterSnowfall: Aha, ok, got it! We may be on to something here. I'll switch to computer doctor mode and ask you a couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) What CPU does the laptop have?
2) Does it have integrated graphics?
3) What dedicated graphics card does the laptop have?
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OldFatGuy: 1) see screenshot
2) No (or it may but they're disabled)
3) Nvidia GeForce GTX 980M

But please don't waste any more of your time on this. Whatever it is, me building the new rig should fix it (lol). Plus I just now noticed something that changed (don't know if that might cause it but I changed it back just the same). And it must have changed when Windows did the update. But my refresh rate had reverted back to 60hz. I have no idea why it did that. But I switched it back to 75Hz to match the monitor.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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OldFatGuy: But I switched it back to 75Hz to match the monitor.
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WinterSnowfall: Alright - my thoughts were that it may be an Optimus problem, since I've had plenty of issues with it in the past as well.

Switching to 75Hz should alleviate the problem at least, as now your GPU has to render in excess of 75FPS in order for you to get any screen tearing.

Wish you well and hope you get to build your new rig soon ;).
If it's slow enough, that should cause tearing, too. Though, aren't most laptop's screens' refresh rates locked?
Post edited March 01, 2018 by kohlrak
Posted March 01, 2018
Wow! Day and night! So the refresh rate can make that much difference?? Really???

I just played two hours (at least) and I TRIED to make it happen and couldn't. It seemed (though may have been a perception bias on my part) like it happened mainly when I was "turning" before. So I ran around all over the place turning and jumping and turning and running and NOT ONCE. Not. A. Single. Time. No more tears. None.

And I swear (again though this may be some sort of perception bias too) that it LOOKS better than it did earlier today and yesterday. I mean obviously it looks better not tearing, but I'm talking about even when it's not tearing. It "seemed" that whenever I turned before even if it didn't tear it was somehow.... slower? and ... blurry???? (if that makes sense. Now I go run around and turn around and the world spins around with me with no tears and no blurs. I simply cannot believe a refresh rate setting would make that much difference. Is this another coincidence? Where whatever was the actual problem somehow got "fixed" at the exact same time I put the refresh rate back to where I had it before?

And coincidence or not, why the fuck does Microsoft's update have to change my damned refresh rate settings? That's bullshit. I can't see or imagine any reason why in order for their update to work properly they would have to adjust anyone's refresh rate or make everyone's the same. Bullshit Microsoft. Go to hell. Glad you're never getting another dime from me in my life.
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kohlrak: If it's slow enough, that should cause tearing, too. Though, aren't most laptop's screens' refresh rates locked?
Sorry that I didn't mention this before (I certainly should have) but I have my laptop hooked up to this monitor.
Post edited March 01, 2018 by OldFatGuy
Posted March 02, 2018
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OldFatGuy: And coincidence or not, why the fuck does Microsoft's update have to change my damned refresh rate settings? That's bullshit. I can't see or imagine any reason why in order for their update to work properly they would have to adjust anyone's refresh rate or make everyone's the same. Bullshit Microsoft. Go to hell. Glad you're never getting another dime from me in my life.
Those are some harsh words. What exactly did update on your system?

You can check it by going to:
Settings => Update & Security=> Windows Update => View installed update history
Posted March 02, 2018
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OldFatGuy: Wow! Day and night! So the refresh rate can make that much difference?? Really???

I just played two hours (at least) and I TRIED to make it happen and couldn't. It seemed (though may have been a perception bias on my part) like it happened mainly when I was "turning" before. So I ran around all over the place turning and jumping and turning and running and NOT ONCE. Not. A. Single. Time. No more tears. None.

And I swear (again though this may be some sort of perception bias too) that it LOOKS better than it did earlier today and yesterday. I mean obviously it looks better not tearing, but I'm talking about even when it's not tearing. It "seemed" that whenever I turned before even if it didn't tear it was somehow.... slower? and ... blurry???? (if that makes sense. Now I go run around and turn around and the world spins around with me with no tears and no blurs. I simply cannot believe a refresh rate setting would make that much difference. Is this another coincidence? Where whatever was the actual problem somehow got "fixed" at the exact same time I put the refresh rate back to where I had it before?

And coincidence or not, why the fuck does Microsoft's update have to change my damned refresh rate settings? That's bullshit. I can't see or imagine any reason why in order for their update to work properly they would have to adjust anyone's refresh rate or make everyone's the same. Bullshit Microsoft. Go to hell. Glad you're never getting another dime from me in my life.
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kohlrak: If it's slow enough, that should cause tearing, too. Though, aren't most laptop's screens' refresh rates locked?
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OldFatGuy: Sorry that I didn't mention this before (I certainly should have) but I have my laptop hooked up to this monitor.
Very important info, actually. Especially since the video card has to worry about both screens. This can easily break vsync support.

And yes, the more different the images between two frames, the more noticeable the tearing. So if you have something flashing from black to white and back to black, that'll maximize your chances of seeing tears. So a game with a dark cave that you can look outside of, spinning back and forth would show the tearing if there is any.
Posted March 02, 2018
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kohlrak: If it's slow enough, that should cause tearing, too.
That's very true. We were talking about a GeForce GTX 980M though, so I doubt that's the case here.

Coming from someone with a history of under-performing video cards (Riva TNT2 M64, Geforce 4 MX etc.), believe me when I say that if it's slow enough it will quickly turn your game into a slideshow that makes you want to throw your rig out of a window. However, I've hardly ever seen/cared about screen tears caused by low FPS - not that they don't exist mind you, but rather they are not that noticeable and usually the least of your problems when trying to play a game as a slideshow :).

But yeah, that's why it's generally a good idea to keep VSync on by default, unless you're trying to run benchmarks and whatnot.
Post edited March 02, 2018 by WinterSnowfall
Posted March 02, 2018
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kohlrak: If it's slow enough, that should cause tearing, too.
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WinterSnowfall: That's very true. We were talking about a GeForce GTX 980M though, so I doubt that's the case here.

Coming from someone with a history of under-performing video cards (Riva TNT2 M64, Geforce 4 MX etc.), believe me when I say that if it's slow enough it will quickly turn your game into a slideshow that makes you want to throw your rig out of a window. However, I've hardly ever seen/cared about screen tears caused by low FPS - not that they don't exist mind you, but rather they are not that noticeable and usually the least of your problems when trying to play a game as a slideshow :).

But yeah, that's why it's generally a good idea to keep VSync on by default, unless you're trying to run benchmarks and whatnot.
Vsync has been known to cause issues in games. I remember minecraft, for example, had an issue with certain cards where vsync was not only broken, but would cause huge slowdowns or something.

To be fair, it's gotten better, since the main issue always has been a lack of support for vsync. With proper vsync support, even VESA/VBE can be viable.
Posted March 03, 2018
UPDATE:

Well, I simply cannot believe it but the Refresh Rate setting apparently makes more difference than I ever thought. I always thought of that setting as sort of a "tweaker" kind of making very small, almost unnoticeable differences. But this is night and day. All of those problems I was having the day of the OS update are now GONE since I reverted the Refresh Rate back to 75 (where I had it all along before the damned update apparently reverted it back to 60). I would never have believed that setting could make such a difference if I hadn't seen it for myself. Incredible. And I've been playing LOTS of hours the past couple of days on F4 and not a single, solitairy example of the awful "tearing" I was seeing (see posts above).

I put "tearing" in quotes because I'm still not sure that's what I was seeing. I am so horrible at trying to explain it that maybe we're just assuming it was tearing when in fact it was something else. I always thought of tearing as something minor as well... one of those video glitches that you won't really notice unless you're looking for it (and then once you see it you can't "unsee" it LOL). But this was NOTHING like that. This was literally unplayable. The top half of the screen was "out of sync" with the bottom half... resulted in a screen that was... again don't know how to explain it... but you just couldn't make out things to be able to play it. Because the top and bottom were so "off" it made it look.. like a real blurry double vision... maybe that's the best way to describe it.

Anyway, all is good now. Man I had no idea that setting (Refresh rate) could make such a difference. From now on that will be one of the first settings I ever check. lol

Thanks to all who helped and attempted to help in this thread. I so appreciate all that you guys here at GOG do for me. Thank you.
Posted March 25, 2018
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drmike: Fire up services.msc

Turn off/ Disable:

- Windows Update

- WIndiws Module Installer

Exit

I;m running Windows 10 Version 1607 which is the Anniversary Update from back in 2016.
How do you get critical updates?
Posted March 25, 2018
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OldFatGuy: Well, I simply cannot believe it but the Refresh Rate setting apparently makes more difference than I ever thought. I always thought of that setting as sort of a "tweaker" kind of making very small, almost unnoticeable differences. But this is night and day. All of those problems I was having the day of the OS update are now GONE since I reverted the Refresh Rate back to 75 (where I had it all along before the damned update apparently reverted it back to 60). I would never have believed that setting could make such a difference if I hadn't seen it for myself. Incredible. And I've been playing LOTS of hours the past couple of days on F4 and not a single, solitairy example of the awful "tearing" I was seeing (see posts above).
Yeah, I don't think refresh rate and steady frame rate get enough attention in PC gaming discussion. It took me a long time to realize that a steady rate which matches the monitor is essential for a smooth experience, let alone glitches and whatnot. Thank god nVidia now have a "half rate" option that lets you set for 30 on a 60hz monitor for a game you're having a tough time running.

Edit: P.S. no issues with Windows 10 yet at all for me.
Post edited March 25, 2018 by StingingVelvet
Posted March 25, 2018
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OldFatGuy: UPDATE:

Well, I simply cannot believe it but the Refresh Rate setting apparently makes more difference than I ever thought. I always thought of that setting as sort of a "tweaker" kind of making very small, almost unnoticeable differences. But this is night and day. All of those problems I was having the day of the OS update are now GONE since I reverted the Refresh Rate back to 75 (where I had it all along before the damned update apparently reverted it back to 60). I would never have believed that setting could make such a difference if I hadn't seen it for myself. Incredible. And I've been playing LOTS of hours the past couple of days on F4 and not a single, solitairy example of the awful "tearing" I was seeing (see posts above).

I put "tearing" in quotes because I'm still not sure that's what I was seeing. I am so horrible at trying to explain it that maybe we're just assuming it was tearing when in fact it was something else. I always thought of tearing as something minor as well... one of those video glitches that you won't really notice unless you're looking for it (and then once you see it you can't "unsee" it LOL). But this was NOTHING like that. This was literally unplayable. The top half of the screen was "out of sync" with the bottom half... resulted in a screen that was... again don't know how to explain it... but you just couldn't make out things to be able to play it. Because the top and bottom were so "off" it made it look.. like a real blurry double vision... maybe that's the best way to describe it.

Anyway, all is good now. Man I had no idea that setting (Refresh rate) could make such a difference. From now on that will be one of the first settings I ever check. lol

Thanks to all who helped and attempted to help in this thread. I so appreciate all that you guys here at GOG do for me. Thank you.
Regardless of your solution (glad it all looks good now and you can play again!) this whole thread and a thousand more out there is why i'm terrified to update to Windows 10, plus the horrible interface and uncomfortable way to tweak, configure and try the system to do what you want and not what he wants.

I'll remain with my Windows 7 and my XP laptop as much as i can :S

Congrats again! :D
Posted March 26, 2018
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OldFatGuy: UPDATE:

Well, I simply cannot believe it but the Refresh Rate setting apparently makes more difference than I ever thought. I always thought of that setting as sort of a "tweaker" kind of making very small, almost unnoticeable differences. But this is night and day. All of those problems I was having the day of the OS update are now GONE since I reverted the Refresh Rate back to 75 (where I had it all along before the damned update apparently reverted it back to 60). I would never have believed that setting could make such a difference if I hadn't seen it for myself. Incredible. And I've been playing LOTS of hours the past couple of days on F4 and not a single, solitairy example of the awful "tearing" I was seeing (see posts above).

I put "tearing" in quotes because I'm still not sure that's what I was seeing. I am so horrible at trying to explain it that maybe we're just assuming it was tearing when in fact it was something else. I always thought of tearing as something minor as well... one of those video glitches that you won't really notice unless you're looking for it (and then once you see it you can't "unsee" it LOL). But this was NOTHING like that. This was literally unplayable. The top half of the screen was "out of sync" with the bottom half... resulted in a screen that was... again don't know how to explain it... but you just couldn't make out things to be able to play it. Because the top and bottom were so "off" it made it look.. like a real blurry double vision... maybe that's the best way to describe it.

Anyway, all is good now. Man I had no idea that setting (Refresh rate) could make such a difference. From now on that will be one of the first settings I ever check. lol

Thanks to all who helped and attempted to help in this thread. I so appreciate all that you guys here at GOG do for me. Thank you.
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Kakarot96: Regardless of your solution (glad it all looks good now and you can play again!) this whole thread and a thousand more out there is why i'm terrified to update to Windows 10, plus the horrible interface and uncomfortable way to tweak, configure and try the system to do what you want and not what he wants.

I'll remain with my Windows 7 and my XP laptop as much as i can :S

Congrats again! :D
ye windows 10 is terrifying!!!
Posted March 27, 2018
Stupidity is terrifying.
Posted March 29, 2018
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MorningStar33: Stupidity is terrifying.
lol you are really upset about someone's being harsh to MS...so upset that you are then being rough to others with your "useful" contributions to the thread. Do you have MS shares or what?
Post edited March 29, 2018 by Kakarot96
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhat Have You Done Now Microsoft?(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)