Posted June 17, 2015
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Shadowstalker16
Jaded optimist
Registered: Apr 2014
From India
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de_Monteynard
Technologist
Registered: Jul 2010
From Slovenia
Posted June 17, 2015
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So, if the countries signed up on the this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Council_of_Europe, it means that the ECHR has the final say, whatever ECJ is saying. This was agreed in 1953....in Article 1 ;)
For example, I know that news websites in Slovenia have a special system in place by which hate speech, calls for violence or intolerance can be reported and in addition to that, individuals who post such content can be prosecuted under Slovenian criminal law. I do not agree with this system, but it would appear that Member States can go above what EU legislation has to say on this issue and now fall foul of it. Moreover, Slovenian legislation would also appear to be now in full compliance with the European Convention on Human Rights (at least per the latest ruling)
So the question now is, how will this work out in the future, ie. will future national/European legislation include this ruling or not?
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Back to the point, so a court, which hasn´t the right to decide upon non-member states dares to put the EU as a entity?
As this state contracts predate its own existence, logically it can not decide upon this. Or in other words, as ECJ is ONLY EU, but ECHR is more, that is like a state judge trying to tell the supreme court what they are allowed to do.
As I mentioned, ECJ is EUROPEAN law only, ECHR is international law.
my two cents.
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Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted June 17, 2015
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So I still don´t get your point, sorry (No Pun intended or similar ;) )
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So the question now is, how will this work out in the future, ie. will future national/European legislation include this ruling or not?
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Back to the point, so a court, which hasn´t the right to decide upon non-member states dares to put the EU as a entity?
As this state contracts predate its own existence, logically it can not decide upon this. Or in other words, as ECJ is ONLY EU, but ECHR is more, that is like a state judge trying to tell the supreme court what they are allowed to do.
As I mentioned, ECJ is EUROPEAN law only, ECHR is international law.
my two cents.
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First, sounding rude? Why? We are having a discussion and it is normal to ask, if either side out of whatever reason, did not understood something ;)
OK, I try it this way:
Both treaties the Council of Europe and any contract regarding the EU are done by the states.
As the Council of Europe is including states, which are NOT part of the EU, best example Russia and Turkey, are outside of the legislative and judicial reach of the EU and its court the ECJ.
So Any decision by a court here ECJ, which has no jurisdiction about things NOT included in those contract are void.
They decided, that the convention of human rights, which is NOT the EU part, but the Council of Europe, is not valid:
1.) According to the council of Europe only states can join. EU IS NOT a state.
2.) How to phrase it..... lets try it this way: Imagine your Slovenian court would try to tell a court/state in Croatia that their law is against Slovenian law. Would it matter?
It is IMHO against the treaties and as the EU is not a single state, this court cannot decide upon state contracts of individual states, which would need to be the prerequisite for the ECJ to decide upon this.
I hope now it is more understandable ;)
Post edited June 17, 2015 by Goodaltgamer
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Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted June 17, 2015
????
EDIT:
Double post before, even as I just used edit????
OK servers are reacting strange today
EDIT:
Double post before, even as I just used edit????
OK servers are reacting strange today
Post edited June 17, 2015 by Goodaltgamer
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Riotact
Avg. Joe.
Registered: Oct 2013
From Ireland
Posted June 17, 2015
OK, now I'm confused, who exactly is in charge of policing the internet, Europe or America ? :)
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Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted June 17, 2015
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depends on the subject:
Espionage is shared between US, Russia and China
Nudity and sex related speech: US
Nazi-Symbols: Germany
Anything to be censored: Cuba and North Korea
so please be more precise ;)
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Maighstir
THIS KNIGHT MISLIKES THESE HEIGHTS
Registered: Nov 2008
From Sweden
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Riotact
Avg. Joe.
Registered: Oct 2013
From Ireland
Posted June 17, 2015
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depends on the subject:
Espionage is shared between US, Russia and China
Nudity and sex related speech: US
Nazi-Symbols: Germany
Anything to be censored: Cuba and North Korea
so please be more precise ;)
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Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted June 17, 2015
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Why did those bloody Americans invented the internet?
That will get you arrested by the right people ;)
But see the positive, now you can CHOOSE by whom you will be beaten up and interrogated. In before it was just America, that gets boring......
Feel for more SM, then decide for Germany
Feeling more for some Cigars, choose Cuba
Ohhhh, the choice, the choice ;)
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Riotact
Avg. Joe.
Registered: Oct 2013
From Ireland
Posted June 17, 2015
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Why did those bloody Americans invented the internet?
That will get you arrested by the right people ;)
But see the positive, now you can CHOOSE by whom you will be beaten up and interrogated. In before it was just America, that gets boring......
Feel for more SM, then decide for Germany
Feeling more for some Cigars, choose Cuba
Ohhhh, the choice, the choice ;)
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Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
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snowkatt
Easily Bored
Registered: Oct 2010
From Netherlands
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Riotact
Avg. Joe.
Registered: Oct 2013
From Ireland
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de_Monteynard
Technologist
Registered: Jul 2010
From Slovenia
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infinite9
No Longer New!
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted June 18, 2015
More reason for why I say "fuck the EU."
I really hope the more nationalist-leaning factions in Europe rise up including the ones that have been mindlessly accused (mostly by EU sympathizers and internationalists) of being "racist" or "OMG NAZIS!!!!" or "fascists."
I really hope the more nationalist-leaning factions in Europe rise up including the ones that have been mindlessly accused (mostly by EU sympathizers and internationalists) of being "racist" or "OMG NAZIS!!!!" or "fascists."