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General discussionWARNING: GamersGate's DRM Free games are NOT REALLY DRM FREE!!!(313 posts)(313 posts)
(313 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 15, 2011
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strixo: Hey, speaking of DRM on Gamersgate, has anyone bought from them:

DA:O Ultimate
~or~
Titan Quest Gold

Each of those are listed as containing "Other DRM". (? - Serial keys, or something more?) An email from support offered a very vague response.
ive bought titanquest gold from there long time ago.. i cannot remember whats the other-drm but i can try to install it later(today or at weekend) on and tell what exactly goes there..If you really need to know, just tell me.
Posted July 15, 2011
Wow, this thread has descended into madness quite nicely 0_o.
It also demonstrates why people should begin such discussions by agreeing upon definitions of terms or artificially introducing new ones to avoid confusion and spend time figuring out what the world is like, not what words mean.
Posted July 15, 2011
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keeveek: Yes, but you cannot LEGALLY sell these games, which is, in fact, limitation of the ownership. And this is what we were talking about.
In that case you were talking about ToS (Terms of Service, or maybe software license agreement is the correct term in this case?), not DRM (Digital Rights Management).

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keeveek: Because it's not like this, GoG games have no limitations at all. Some were talking about selling cd copies of gog games anyway, but ignoring totaly the fact this is the same as selling the game downloaded from torrent.
GOG games don't have any technical limitations (DRM) about how you can use the game once you have obtained it. They have legal limitations (ToS or SW license agreement) though about what you are allowed to do with the game purchased from them.

The torrent games don't have DRM either because DRM was removed from them by the bad pirates.
Post edited July 15, 2011 by timppu
Posted July 15, 2011
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Vestin: Wow, this thread has descended into madness quite nicely 0_o.
It also demonstrates why people should begin such discussions by agreeing upon definitions of terms or artificially introducing new ones to avoid confusion and spend time figuring out what the world is like, not what words mean.
This x 1000.
Posted July 15, 2011
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Vestin: Wow, this thread has descended into madness quite nicely 0_o.
It also demonstrates why people should begin such discussions by agreeing upon definitions of terms or artificially introducing new ones to avoid confusion and spend time figuring out what the world is like, not what words mean.
Nah, if the point of the OP is to spread FUD by making false and inflammatory claims, then no, that is the wrong way to go about it :)
Posted July 15, 2011
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cjrgreen: Nah, if the point of the OP is to spread FUD by making false and inflammatory claims, then no, that is the wrong way to go about it :)
Damn... You're right, that intent makes my suggestion counterproductive. I should stop assuming that people want to uncover truth everywhere, it's shows my utter myopia in regards to social interactions xP.
Posted July 15, 2011
Thread gets necroed.

Do you:

A. IGNORE
B. Pointlessly revive it and go into a feeedback loop

Why not choose A. Why always B? Why?
Posted July 16, 2011
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timppu: GOG games don't have any technical limitations (DRM) about how you can use the game once you have obtained it. They have legal limitations (ToS or SW license agreement) though about what you are allowed to do with the game purchased from them.
Except the reason you can't legally sell them has nothing to do with the ToS, it has to do with the fact that the game is tied to an account, which is an extra thing you would have to sell in order to legally sell them, hence DRM.
Posted July 17, 2011
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Orryyrro: ...
Except the reason you can't legally sell them has nothing to do with the ToS, it has to do with the fact that the game is tied to an account, which is an extra thing you would have to sell in order to legally sell them, hence DRM.
I thought that the EULA of for example GOG games forbid reselling and GOG games are not tied to any account really (after download).
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Kabuto: ...
Why not choose A. Why always B? Why?
Well, I don't know but I guess it's because there is no Wikipedia site about it that you can refer to that directly states that GamersGate is DRM. So everybody wants to give his/her own opinion on the matter.
Post edited July 17, 2011 by Trilarion
Posted July 17, 2011
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Orryyrro: ...
Except the reason you can't legally sell them has nothing to do with the ToS, it has to do with the fact that the game is tied to an account, which is an extra thing you would have to sell in order to legally sell them, hence DRM.
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Trilarion: I thought that the EULA of for example GOG games forbid reselling and GOG games are not tied to any account really (after download).
Again, yes they are tied to an account, because it allows you to download them again as many times as you want, the only way a game could be DRM free would be if you could remove them from your account at will. As you cannot legally sell a piece of software unless you lose access to it, and the only way to lose access to it is to sell the account. (not that there is anything stopping you from selling the account, but it is something that would have to be done in addition to selling the game and is against the ToS, same as nothing stopping you from cracking out SecuROM, but a game with SecuROM has DRM no matter how easily it is bypassed)
Posted July 18, 2011
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Trilarion: I thought that the EULA of for example GOG games forbid reselling and GOG games are not tied to any account really (after download).
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Orryyrro: Again, yes they are tied to an account, because it allows you to download them again as many times as you want, the only way a game could be DRM free would be if you could remove them from your account at will. As you cannot legally sell a piece of software unless you lose access to it, and the only way to lose access to it is to sell the account. (not that there is anything stopping you from selling the account, but it is something that would have to be done in addition to selling the game and is against the ToS, same as nothing stopping you from cracking out SecuROM, but a game with SecuROM has DRM no matter how easily it is bypassed)
Okay, as it is, it would not be practical. But that's not the main reason, why you can't resell GOG games. The main reason is that they don't want it. That's why it is also forbidden in the EULA. And regarding the account issue. Well there are simple imaginable ways to transfer a game from one account to another account, although it would not be as if I would loose access because I can backup. So, it's not that they technically cannot do it, they don't want to do it. Simply they don't want to. And the EULA would forbid it, even if the accounts were not the problem.

Btw, you probably haven't heard of the german games download service gamesload.de. There you are actually entitled to resell some of their games (notably exception is everything from EA) and they simply ask you to destroy all your copies after reselling. Wow, that is simple and a lot of trust...
Posted July 18, 2011
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timppu: GOG games don't have any technical limitations (DRM) about how you can use the game once you have obtained it. They have legal limitations (ToS or SW license agreement) though about what you are allowed to do with the game purchased from them.
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Orryyrro: Except the reason you can't legally sell them has nothing to do with the ToS, it has to do with the fact that the game is tied to an account, which is an extra thing you would have to sell in order to legally sell them, hence DRM.
DRM has nothing to do with what you can legally do with your purchase. DRM refers only to the technical means to restrict what you can do with the game you have obtained, usually trying to prevent the same copy being played on several PCs simultaneously (CD check, codewheels/manual checks, online authentication etc.).

There is absolutely no DRM in GoG games that prevent you from making millions of copies of a game you have obtained from GoG and selling them to everyone (without selling your account). However, that is still not legal.

For example Steam is different, because there you basically need the account to play the games. In GoG you don't.
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Orryyrro: Again, yes they are tied to an account, because it allows you to download them again as many times as you want, the only way a game could be DRM free would be if you could remove them from your account at will.
Being able to download the game several time from your GoG account is just an extra service, not a requirement in order to re-install and play the game, even on a different machine. Thus, it has nothing to do with DRM, which is about technical restrictions about what you can do with a game you have already obtained.

GoG games install and work fine even without an account, as long as you keep a local copy or copies somewhere.
Post edited July 18, 2011 by timppu
Posted July 18, 2011
Actually it's not that important if a restriction is technical or legal. A restriction is a restriction. We should look at the sum of both, shouldn't we.
Posted July 18, 2011
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Trilarion: Actually it's not that important if a restriction is technical or legal. A restriction is a restriction. We should look at the sum of both, shouldn't we.
We need to look at them separately since they create different problems.
Posted July 18, 2011
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Miaghstir: ...
We need to look at them separately since they create different problems.
If you want you can look separately but both come from the same origin, the publishers/sellers. They choose to implement a certain platform for distributing the software, to implement a certain DRM, they also choose to bind certain legal agreements to it. They could have done it differently (also the technical implementation).

And since I do not want to circumvent any technical restriction nor do anything illegal, I face them and can only ask the provider to do differently or not buying at all.
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Community
General discussionWARNING: GamersGate's DRM Free games are NOT REALLY DRM FREE!!!(313 posts)(313 posts)
(313 posts)