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General discussionVideo games and stories(116 posts)(116 posts)
(116 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 15, 2015
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KneeTheCap: What about you? Have you encountered stories that kept you thinking for a long time? That kept you invested? Did you like the feeling? Or was it something to be ashamed of?
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Breja: Ashamed of? That's insane. Stories are the essence of being human. Terry Pratchett once said that "we are Pan narrans, the storytelling chimpanzee". Telling stories is how we keep our history, our ideas and ideals alive. It's how those ideas form, change, evolve. Everything is a story to us. A wise (and fictional) man said "our thoughts form the universe. They always matter." Great works of fiction are the foundation of our civilisation. Whether it's Hector at the gates of Troy or Holmes at 221 b Baker Street, we eould be lost without them. They inspire us, they are everpresent in our thoughts and our language even when we don't realise it.

When I read a truly great book, or see a truly great movie it stays with me for days, weeks, sometimes years or forever. I just read Watership Down for the first time a few weaks ago, and it still haunts me. It's too important, too beatifull and smart to stop thinking about. And too true. Neil Gaiman once wrote that not all true thing have to happen. It's actually a theme behind a lot of his work, how fiction conveys the most important truths.

Never be ashemd of getting hung up on a great story. Cherish it. Learn from it. Let it it transform you.

Now, video games rarely have that kind of stories, but they are there. It happened to me once. When I was a kid and played Dune (the first one). I didn't know there was a book, or a movie. The game was my first contact with it, and with that kind of space opera in general. It blew my mind, that story, that universe, that scope and vision of impossible things. And me in the middle of it. It really was a moment when "the sleeper has awakend". A whole new universe of ideas opened before me.
^ This. Life is a story, you are a combination of your experiences, interactions, and thoughts. Its a good point, what do you know of history, all that is stories, what is happening in the world, unless you witness it first hand, its stories.
Posted September 15, 2015
Depends. I agree in large part with this:
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HiPhish: I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utk2k8Z4bJE
In that video they do mention that story is integral to certain types of games, like role playing games (and I would say point and click adventure games). But, the story interaction is what those games are. If you take that out, there is no game.

So, I guess I'd say that if the story could be removed from a game without affecting gameplay, then the game doesn't benefit and is probably hurt by a story. I know Quake would have sucked more if they shoved the story down my throat with multiple cut scenes in between and throughout each level.

It's how it's handled. I absolutely hate when I can't skip cut scenes or there are basically interactive cut scenes where I can't actually do anything but look around or walk forward. Max Payne 3 was like that. I'd complete a level and there would be a LONG cut scene. Then the new level would load and play another LONG cut scene. Then I'd get to play, but it would just be a few minutes of walking (no gun, no shooting, just walking). Then another LONG CUT SCENE, followed by (you guessed it) more walking which was followed by ANOTHER LONG CUT SCENE!
Posted September 15, 2015
I'm with Maddox on this one. If I want to play a game, gameplay is the most important aspect. I can spent hundreds of hours in games with little to no story at all. On top of that, I feel most video game stories are just bad. Yes, even the Final Fantasy ones.
I like movies. And the difference in stories between movies and games are like day and night. At least for the games I play. Even short stories and novels beat game stories by far, and I am not a very passionate about reading.
That does not mean I don't like games with a bigger focus on story, but it is more often the setting, the atmosphere and the characters that make a game for me.
Posted September 15, 2015
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hudfreegamer: Depends. I agree in large part with this:
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HiPhish: I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utk2k8Z4bJE
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hudfreegamer: In that video they do mention that story is integral to certain types of games, like role playing games (and I would say point and click adventure games). But, the story interaction is what those games are. If you take that out, there is no game.

So, I guess I'd say that if the story could be removed from a game without affecting gameplay, then the game doesn't benefit and is probably hurt by a story. I know Quake would have sucked more if they shoved the story down my throat with multiple cut scenes in between and throughout each level.

It's how it's handled. I absolutely hate when I can't skip cut scenes or there are basically interactive cut scenes where I can't actually do anything but look around or walk forward. Max Payne 3 was like that. I'd complete a level and there would be a LONG cut scene. Then the new level would load and play another LONG cut scene. Then I'd get to play, but it would just be a few minutes of walking (no gun, no shooting, just walking). Then another LONG CUT SCENE, followed by (you guessed it) more walking which was followed by ANOTHER LONG CUT SCENE!
Again, I disagree with the notion that story and cutscenes are integral to RPGs. I play games (including RPGs) for the gameplay, not the story.
Posted September 15, 2015
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KneeTheCap: What about you? Have you encountered stories that kept you thinking for a long time? That kept you invested? Did you like the feeling? Or was it something to be ashamed of?
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Breja: Ashamed of? That's insane.
It's just that liking fictional stories or characters featured in a certain medium is still stigmatized and considered socially awkward, I guess. You know, in a "liking movies and books is cool, but comics and videogaymez are for kids and losers" sense.

It's a very stupid preconception and I'm past the point of being able to feel ashamed for that. But I know plenty of people IRL that disagree.
Posted September 16, 2015
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KneeTheCap: Well, there are people I really disagree with. This guy in this video is one of them.
Maddox goes over the top intentionally, that's the thing of his show (the little cutscene in Ms. Pac-Man was to give players in the arcade a short break because you couldn't pause the game), but the core of the message still stands. If you really care that much about story you are in the wrong medium.

Games have had stories since forever, but the story was conveyed through the game. It's like when you do something in real life, there is a story but it is not narrated and there are no cutscenes, it just happens through your actions.

Take Doom as an example: you start out on Phobos, the base has been overrun with demons, but the attack happened only recently, hence why the monster are rather weak and the surroundings still resemble the original military base. When you beat a level you can see your progress on the world map, moving from one location to another. Once you make it to the end you step through a teleporter and enter the Deimos base. This base has been overrun before the Phobos base and the demonic infestation is more apparent, there are stronger monsters and the place is full of satanic symbols. Then you find out that Deimos has been sucked into hell and you enter it. Now the levels are rotten landscapes and the world map shows fortresses and such instead of military installations.

The point is, there is a story but instead of Doom guy telling you what to fee and what to think the game designers actually respected the player's imagination. It's a game, games are interactive, and so should be the story. Doom left a much bigger impression on me than Painkiller because it allowed my imagination to go wild in the intricate levels. Painkiller had cutscenes and everything, but the levels were just shooting galleries with monster bubbles, there was no room for the player's imagination.

A game with an actual narration is something special reserved for RPGs. Why should every game have to be an RPG?
Post edited September 16, 2015 by HiPhish
Posted September 16, 2015
Stories in videogames as well as in any book, or movie, or person´s mouth are usually experiences from an individual or group of individuals, so in a sense if you feel connected to those stories you can feel empathy or even get some wisdom out of them.
To be fair most stories out from movies or else fall short to the real life experiences of people, no matter how unbelievable you think they are.
I´ve watched some tv series and realised the character in it was almost like a carbon copy of me, even the situations that happened, also with books.
Basically all you experience is potential wisdom, some things may teach you something and some others may not, some things can´t be learnt in books or by watching others´experiences........but everything is affecting the way you think, thus transforming who you are.
Posted September 16, 2015
Stories are fine. Even the immersive ones. If you are able to return back to normal after finishing it. Or if you can keep one leg on the ground while immersing.

Some games have a lot of story, the others have barely some. Neither is a good thing per se. It all depends on execution. Although I would be willing to forget the lack of story only to classic games. The modern games should have at least some story.
Posted September 16, 2015
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KneeTheCap: Well, there are people I really disagree with. This guy in this video is one of them.
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HiPhish: Maddox goes over the top intentionally, that's the thing of his show (the little cutscene in Ms. Pac-Man was to give players in the arcade a short break because you couldn't pause the game), but the core of the message still stands. If you really care that much about story you are in the wrong medium.

Games have had stories since forever, but the story was conveyed through the game. It's like when you do something in real life, there is a story but it is not narrated and there are no cutscenes, it just happens through your actions.

Take Doom as an example: you start out on Phobos, the base has been overrun with demons, but the attack happened only recently, hence why the monster are rather weak and the surroundings still resemble the original military base. When you beat a level you can see your progress on the world map, moving from one location to another. Once you make it to the end you step through a teleporter and enter the Deimos base. This base has been overrun before the Phobos base and the demonic infestation is more apparent, there are stronger monsters and the place is full of satanic symbols. Then you find out that Deimos has been sucked into hell and you enter it. Now the levels are rotten landscapes and the world map shows fortresses and such instead of military installations.

The point is, there is a story but instead of Doom guy telling you what to fee and what to think the game designers actually respected the player's imagination. It's a game, games are interactive, and so should be the story. Doom left a much bigger impression on me than Painkiller because it allowed my imagination to go wild in the intricate levels. Painkiller had cutscenes and everything, but the levels were just shooting galleries with monster bubbles, there was no room for the player's imagination.

A game with an actual narration is something special reserved for RPGs. Why should every game have to be an RPG?
Agreed. It's Darth Vader syndrome. Before the helmet came off, Vader was one of the most menacing and mysterious villains in movie history. Once the helmet came off, he became a whiny, petulant cry baby. Story tellers should tease a reveal or a plot point, the viewer/player should use their own imagination to fill in the blanks. 9 times out of 10 the viewer's/player's imagination will far succeed any intentions from the designer.

Sadly we're living in the age of instant gratification, so therefore everything has to be revealed for us with the designer/creator basically hammering us over the head with a blunt and forceful construct, and I don't think it's necessary or even desired. The viewer/player is increasingly being treated as a mindless mouth breather and I don't think it benefits entertainment quality or basic human story telling. A little mystery is a good thing. Not every single thing ever created needs its own thorough wikipedia entry.
Posted September 16, 2015
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HiPhish: I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utk2k8Z4bJE
Indeed, I guess I should go add Half-Life and Halo to my list of worst games ever. They weren't bad games in and of themselves, but the damage that came from everybody aping them was ridiculous.

I liked those brain dead FPS games where you had to actually worry about running out of life and didn't have to think about the story at all. Quite literally the "story" from Wolf 3D was break out of prison and get Hitler.
Posted September 16, 2015
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HiPhish: A game with an actual narration is something special reserved for RPGs. Why should every game have to be an RPG?
Umm... no. Sure, a lot of what you're saying is right, but there is plenty games that are not RPGs that have great stories that are pivotal to the game as a whole. First of all we have adventure games- you really can't have much of an adventure game without a story. Or strategy games. Yeah, the first one had a bare-bones barely story, but that was at the dawn of the genre. Warcraft 3 would not have been much fun without the story. Even in various shooters like Max Payne or Bioshock a story can be the foundation of the game as a whole. And those are just some big examples, I could make a whole list. Not every game has to have a story, but usually having a good story helps. A lot. Max Payne is one of my favourite games ever, but it surely would not be without it's story and narration.
Post edited September 16, 2015 by Breja
Posted September 16, 2015
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HiPhish: A game with an actual narration is something special reserved for RPGs. Why should every game have to be an RPG?
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Breja: Umm... no. Sure, a lot of what you're saying is right, but there is plenty games that are not RPGs that have great stories that are pivotal to the game as a whole. First of all we have adventure games- you really can't have much of an adventure game without a story. Or strategy games. Yeah, the first one had a bare-bones barely story, but that was at the dawn of the genre. Warcraft 3 would not have been much fun without the story. Even in various shooters like Max Payne or Bioshock a story can be the foundation of the game as a whole. Not every game has to have a story, but usually having a good story helps. A lot. Max Payne is one of my favourite games ever, but it surely would not be without it's story and narration.
There are, but those are games where the developers paid for quality writing and paid somebody to put some effort into the actual integration of the story into the gameplay. And even in games like Assassin's Creed where the did a pretty good job, you get people bitching about how it wasn't a sophisticated enough story.

I doubt most game developers commit the resources necessary to have a hope of producing a game with quality story. But, even if it is a quality story, I don't like being forced to view the scenes and there should be something in it for me to sit through it.
Posted September 16, 2015
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hedwards: There are, but those are games where the developers paid for quality writing and paid somebody to put some effort into the actual integration of the story into the gameplay. And even in games like Assassin's Creed where the did a pretty good job, you get people bitching about how it wasn't a sophisticated enough story.

I doubt most game developers commit the resources necessary to have a hope of producing a game with quality story. But, even if it is a quality story, I don't like being forced to view the scenes and there should be something in it for me to sit through it.
Assassin's Creed has one of the worst stories in all of gaming, but that's beside the point. Actually, I'm not sure what is your point. That writing a good story takes effort? Well... yes. No one said otherwise. I just said that the story is important for many games and many genres, not just RPGs.
Post edited September 16, 2015 by Breja
Posted September 16, 2015
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HiPhish: A game with an actual narration is something special reserved for RPGs. Why should every game have to be an RPG?
I disagree with this point. Narration should be reserved for Visual Novels, so there is no other gameplay for the story to interfere with. RPGs do not need stories at all, and are actually more fun when you can create the party you choose and aren't constrained by some story.
Posted September 16, 2015
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HiPhish: I'm just going to leave this here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utk2k8Z4bJE
I like stories, and so I like videogame with stories. But he does have a point, not all games need a story (Tetris with a story... priceless).
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionVideo games and stories(116 posts)(116 posts)
(116 posts)